---
title: "Dialogues of the Dead · Νεκρικοὶ διάλογοι"
author: "Lucian"
translator: "Matthew Donald Macleod"
languages: [grc, en]
shelf: "Classical Greek"
section: 25 of 30
url: https://scriptura.si/works/lucian-dialogues-of-the-dead/25/
cite: "Lucian, tr. Matthew Donald Macleod, Dialogues of the Dead · Νεκρικοὶ διάλογοι, section 25. Scriptura (scriptura.si), https://scriptura.si/works/lucian-dialogues-of-the-dead/25/"
---

# Dialogues of the Dead · Νεκρικοὶ διάλογοι

*Lucian, tr. Matthew Donald Macleod*

Diogenes, Menippus, Alexander, Achilles and the rest in Hades, where beauty, wealth and power count for nothing.

> Greek: ed. Matthew Donald Macleod, from the Perseus Digital Library (canonical-greekLit, tlg0062.tlg066, CC BY-SA 4.0).

> English: Matthew Donald Macleod, from the Perseus Digital Library (tlg0062.tlg066.perseus-eng3). Notes are not included.

> Rows follow the references the two texts share (books, chapters and sections), cut where both reach the end of a sentence.

## 25. Dialogue 25

Source: https://scriptura.si/works/lucian-dialogues-of-the-dead/25/ · cite a paragraph as https://scriptura.si/works/lucian-dialogues-of-the-dead/25/#p-N

[¶0] 1. ALEXANDER: I should be preferred to you, Libyan; I’m the better man.

> Greek: 1. ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ: Ἐμὲ δεῖ προκεκρίσθαι σου, ὦ Λίβυ· ἀμείνων γάρ εἰμι.

[¶1] HANNIBAL: No, I should.

> Greek: ΑΝΝΙΒΑΣ: Οὐ μὲν οὖν, ἀλλ’ ἐμέ.

[¶2] ALEXANDER: Let Minos decide, then. MINOS: Who are you?

> Greek: ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ: Οὐκοῦν ὁ Μίνως δικασάτω. ΜΙΝΩΣ: Τίνες δὲ ἐστέ;

[¶3] ALEXANDER: This is Hannibal of Carthage, and I am Alexander, son of Philip. MINOS: Both famous indeed. But what are you disputing?

> Greek: ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ: Οὗτος μὲν Ἀννίβας ὁ Καρχηδόνιος, ἐγὼ δὲ Ἀλέξανδρος ὁ Φιλίππου. ΜΙΝΩΣ: Νὴ Δία ἔνδοξοί γε ἀμφότεροι. ἀλλὰ περὶ τίνος ὑμῖν ἡ ἔρις;

[¶4] ALEXANDER: The first place. He says he was a better General than I was, but I say, as is known to all, that in the arts of war I was superior not only to him, but to pretty well every one who went before me. MINOS: Then let each of you speak in turn; you start, Libyan.

> Greek: ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ: Περὶ προεδρίας· φησὶ γὰρ οὗτος ἀμείνων γεγενῆσθαι στρατηγὸς ἐμοῦ, ἐγὼ δέ, ὥσπερ ἅπαντες ἴσασιν, οὐχὶ τούτου μόνον, ἀλλὰ πάντων σχεδὸν τῶν πρὸ ἐμοῦ φημι διενεγκεῖν τὰ πολέμια. ΜΙΝΩΣ: Οὐκοῦν ἐν μέρει ἑκάτερος εἰπάτω, σὺ δὲ πρῶτος ὁ Λίβυς λέγε.

[¶5] 2. HANNIBAL: I’ve one thing to be thankful for, Minos, for, while I’ve been here, I’ve added Greek to my other accomplishments; he won’t, as a result, have the advantage of me even in that. I maintain that those are most deserving of praise who began from nothing, and yet advanced to greatness by their own efforts, by winning power for themselves and being thought worthy of command. Thus it was that I, setting out for Spain with a few followers, served at first as my brother’s lieutenant, and then was thought worthy of the highest command, because I was judged to be the best man, and conquered the Celtiberians, mastered the Gauls of the West, crossed the mighty mountains, overran the whole Po Valley, devastated all those cities, subdued the plains of Italy, reached the outskirts of the greatest city of all, and killed so many in one day, that I measured their rings by the bushel, and bridged rivers with the dead. Moreover, I did all this without being called the son of Ammon, or pretending to be a god, or recounting dreams of my mother, but I admitted I was a man, I matched myself against the most accomplished Generals, and locked myself in battle with the finest of soldiers. My opponents were no Medes or Armenians who flee before they are pursued and yield immediate victory to anyone who shows a bold front.

> Greek: 2. ΑΝΝΙΒΑΣ: Ἓν μὲν τοῦτο, ὦ Μίνως, ὠνάμην, ὅτι ἐνταῦθα καὶ τὴν Ἑλλάδα φωνὴν ἐξέμαθον· ὥστε οὐδὲ ταύτῃ πλέον οὗτος ἐνέγκαιτό μου. φημὶ δὲ τούτους μάλιστα ἐπαίνου ἀξίους εἶναι, ὅσοι τὸ μηδὲν ἐξ ἀρχῆς ὄντες ὅμως ἐπὶ μέγα προεχώρησαν δι’ αὑτῶν δύναμίν τε περιβαλόμενοι καὶ ἄξιοι δόξαντες ἀρχῆς. ἔγωγ' οὖν μετ' ὀλίγων ἐξορμήσας εἰς τὴν Ἰβηρίαν τὸ πρῶτον ὕπαρχος ὢν τῷ ἀδελφῷ μεγίστων ἠξιώθην ἄριστος κριθείς, καὶ τούς τε Κελτίβηρας εἷλον καὶ Γαλατῶν ἐκράτησα τῶν ἑσπερίων καὶ τὰ μεγάλα ὄρη ὑπερβὰς τὰ περὶ τὸν Ἠριδανὸν ἅπαντα κατέδραμον καὶ ἀναστάτους ἐποίησα τοσαύτας πόλεις καὶ τὴν πεδινὴν Ἰταλίαν ἐχειρωσάμην καὶ μέχρι τῶν προαστείων τῆς προὐχούσης πόλεως ἦλθον καὶ τοσούτους ἀπέκτεινα μιᾶς ἡμέρας, ὥστε τοὺς δακτυλίους αὐτῶν μεδίμνοις ἀπομετρῆσαι καὶ τοὺς ποταμοὺς γεφυρῶσαι νεκροῖς. καὶ ταῦτα πάντα ἔπραξα οὔτε Ἄμμωνος υἱὸς ὀνομαζόμενος οὔτε θεὸς εἶναι προσποιούμενος ἢ ἐνύπνια τῆς μητρὸς διεξιών, ἀλλ’ ἄνθρωπος εἶναι ὁμολογῶν, στρατηγοῖς τε τοῖς συνετωτάτοις ἀντεξεταζόμενος καὶ στρατιώταις τοῖς μαχιμωτάτοις συμπλεκόμενος, οὐ Μήδους καὶ Ἀρμενίους καταγωνιζόμενος ὑποφεύγοντας πρὶν διώκειν τινὰ καὶ τῷ τολμήσαντι παραδιδόντας εὐθὺς τὴν νίκην.

[¶6] 3. HANNIBAL: But Alexander inherited his kingdom from his father, and was helped in enlarging it and extending it so far by the impetus of fortune. In any case, when he was victorious, and had defeated that contemptible Darius at Issus and Arbela, he renounced the traditions of his fathers; he demanded the worship of men; he changed over to the Median way of life; at his banquets he murdered his friends or arrested them to have them killed. But I led my country as her equal, and, when she sent for me, after the enemy had invaded Africa with a great force, I promptly obeyed, gave myself up as a private citizen, and, when tried and condemned, accepted it without rancour. All this did I do, although I was a barbarian without the advantage of a Greek education, and unable to declaim Homer like him. I had no education under Professor Aristotle, but relied solely on my natural gifts. These are the things in which I claim to excel Alexander. If he is more handsome because he wore a diadem on his head—well, perhaps Macedonians respect such things, but he cannot be thought better for that reason than a noble and skilful General who depended more on his own intellect than on fortune. MINOS: This is no mean speech that he’s made on his own behalf, and not at all what one would have expected from a Libyan. What have you to say to this, Alexander?

> Greek: 3. ΑΝΝΙΒΑΣ: Ἀλέξανδρος δὲ πατρῴαν ἀρχὴν παραλαβὼν ηὔξησεν καὶ παρὰ πολὺ ἐξέτεινε χρησάμενος τῇ τῆς τύχης ὁρμῇ. ἐπεὶ δ’ οὖν ἐνίκησέ τε καὶ τὸν ὄλεθρον ἐκεῖνον Δαρεῖον ἐν Ἰσσῷ τε καὶ Ἀρβήλοις ἐκράτησεν, ἀποστὰς τῶν πατρῴων προσκυνεῖσθαι ἠξίου καὶ δίαιταν τὴν Μηδικὴν μετεδιῄτησεν ἑαυτὸν καὶ ἐμιαιφόνει ἐν τοῖς συμποσίοις τοὺς φίλους καὶ συνελάμβανεν ἐπὶ θανάτῳ. ἐγὼ δὲ ἦρξα ἐπ' ἴσης τῆς πατρίδος, καὶ ἐπειδὴ μετεπέμπετο τῶν πολεμίων μεγάλῳ στόλῳ ἐπιπλευσάντων τῇ Λιβύῃ, ταχέως ὑπήκουσα, καὶ ἰδιώτην ἐμαυτὸν παρέσχον καὶ καταδικασθεὶς ἤνεγκα εὐγνωμόνως τὸ πρᾶγμα. καὶ ταῦτα ἔπραξα βάρβαρος ὢν καὶ ἀπαίδευτος παιδείας τῆς Ἑλληνικῆς καὶ οὔτε Ὅμηρον ὥσπερ οὗτος ῥαψῳδῶν οὔτε ὑπ' Ἀριστοτέλει τῷ σοφιστῇ παιδευθείς, μόνῃ δὲ τῇ φύσει ἀγαθῇ χρησάμενος. ταῦτά ἐστιν ἃ ἐγὼ Αλεξάνδρου ἀμείνων φημὶ εἶναι. εἰ δέ ἐστι καλλίων οὑτοσί, διότι διαδήματι τὴν κεφαλὴν διεδέδετο, Μακεδόσι ἴσως καὶ ταῦτα σεμνά, οὐ μὴν διὰ τοῦτο ἀμείνων μὲν δόξειεν ἂν γενναίου καὶ στρατηγικοῦ ἀνδρὸς τῇ γνώμῃ πλέον ἤπερ τῇ τύχῃ κεχρημένου. ΜΙΝΩΣ: Ὁ μὲν εἴρηκεν οὐκ ἀγεννῆ τὸν λόγον οὐδὲ ὡς Λίβυν εἰκὸς ἦν ὑπὲρ αὑτοῦ. σὺ δέ, ὦ Ἀλέξανδρε, τί πρὸς ταῦτα φῄς;

[¶7] 4. ALEXANDER: A man so impudent, Minos, deserves no answer. Common report suffices to show you what a king I was and what a brigand he was. But consider whether I was not greatly superior to him. I was still young when I came to power, put an end to the disorders of my kingdom, and punished my father’s murderers. Then I struck fear into Hellas by the destruction of the Thebans, and was elected her leader, but I was not content to govern Macedonia, and rule only the domain left to me by my father, but, thinking in terms of the whole world, and considering it a disgrace not to conquer it all, I invaded Asia with a few men, was victorious in a great battle at the Granicus, took over Lydia, and, subduing Ionia, Phrygia, and, in short, whatever lay before me, reached Issus, where Darius awaited me at the head of countless thousands of men.

> Greek: 4. ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ: Ἐχρῆν μέν, ὦ Μίνως, μηδὲν πρὸς ἄνδρα οὕτω θρασὺν· ἱκανὴ γὰρ ἡ φήμη διδάξαι σε, οἷος μὲν ἐγὼ βασιλεύς, οἷος δὲ οὗτος λῃστὴς ἐγένετο. ὅμως δὲ ὅρα εἰ κατ' ὀλίγον αὐτοῦ διήνεγκα, ὃς νέος ὢν ἔτι παρελθὼν ἐπὶ τὰ πράγματα καὶ τὴν ἀρχὴν τεταραγμένην κατέσχον καὶ τοὺς φονέας τοῦ πατρὸς μετῆλθον, κᾆτα φοβήσας τὴν Ἑλλάδα τῇ Θηβαίων ἀπωλείᾳ στρατηγὸς ὑπ' αὐτῶν χειροτονηθεὶς οὐκ ἠξίωσα τὴν Μακεδόνων ἀρχὴν περιέπων ἀγαπᾶν ἄρχειν ὁπόσων ὁ πατὴρ κατέλιπεν, ἀλλὰ πᾶσαν ἐπινοήσας τὴν γῆν καὶ δεινὸν ἡγησάμενος, εἰ μὴ ἁπάντων κρατήσαιμι, ὀλίγους ἄγων εἰσέβαλον εἰς τὴν Ἀσίαν, καὶ ἐπί τε Γρανικῷ ἐκράτησα μεγάλῃ μάχῃ καὶ τὴν Λυδίαν λαβὼν καὶ Ἰωνίαν καὶ Φρυγίαν καὶ ὅλως τὰ ἐν ποσὶν ἀεὶ χειρούμενος ἦλθον ἐπὶ Ἰσσόν, ἔνθα Δαρεῖος ὑπέμεινεν μυριάδας πολλὰς στρατοῦ ἄγων.

[¶8] 5. ALEXANDER: The result you all know, Minos, and the numbers of dead I sent down to you in a single day. The ferryman certainly says that his boat could not cope with them on that occasion, but that the majority of them made their own rafts and crossed over in that way. Moveover, while doing this, I faced danger at the head of my men, and did not object to wounds. Not to speak of what happened at Tyre and Arbela, I marched as far as India, making the Ocean the boundary of my empire. I kept their elephants and overcame Porus; I crossed the Tanais, and defeated the Scythians, formidable foes, in a mighty cavalry battle; I treated my friends well, and wrought vengeance on my enemies. Even if men did think me a god, they had some excuse for such beliefs about me in view of the greatness of my achievements.

> Greek: 5. ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ: καὶ τὸ ἀπὸ τούτου, ὦ Μίνως, ὑμεῖς ἴστε ὅσους ὑμῖν νεκροὺς ἐπὶ μιᾶς ἡμέρας κατέπεμψα· φησὶ γοῦν ὁ πορθμεὺς μὴ διαρκέσαι αὐτοῖς τότε τὸ σκάφος, ἀλλὰ σχεδίας διαπηξαμένους τοὺς πολλοὺς αὐτῶν διαπλεῦσαι. καὶ ταῦτα δὲ ἔπραττον αὐτὸς προκινδυνεύων καὶ τιτρώσκεσθαι ἀξιῶν. καὶ ἵνα σοὶ μὴ τὰ ἐν Τύρῳ μηδὲ τὰ ἐν Ἀρβήλοις διηγήσωμαι, ἀλλὰ καὶ μέχρι Ἰνδῶν ἦλθον καὶ τὸν Ὠκεανὸν ὅρον ἐποιησάμην τῆς ἀρχῆς καὶ τοὺς ἐλέφαντας αὐτῶν εἶχον καὶ Πῶρον ἐχειρωσάμην, καὶ Σκύθας δὲ οὐκ εὐκαταφρονήτους ἄνδρας ὑπερβὰς τὸν Τάναϊν ἐνίκησα μεγάλῃ ἱππομαχίᾳ, καὶ τοὺς φίλους εὖ ἐποίησα καὶ τοὺ ἐχθροὺς ἠμυνάμην. εἰ δὲ καὶ θεὸς ἐδόκουν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις, συγγνωστοὶ ἐκεῖνοι πρὸς τὸ μέγεθος τῶν πραγμάτων καὶ τοιοῦτόν τι πιστεύσαντες περὶ ἐμοῦ.

[¶9] 6. ALEXANDER: Last of all, I died a king, whereas he died an exile, at the court of Prusias of Bithynia—a proper end for so exceedingly wicked and cruel a man. Take for instance his conquests in Italy. I won’t mention that these were achieved not by might, but by knavery and treachery and deceit, but of open legitimate warfare there was nothing at all; but when he reproaches me with luxurious living, I think the distinguished gentleman has forgotten how he behaved in Capua, consorting with loose women, and wasting in debauchery his opportunities for victory in the war. But suppose I hadn’t despised the west, and preferred to march against the east, what great feat would I have accomplished by a bloodless conquest of Italy and the subjection of Libya and everything as far as Gades? But I didn’t think it worth fighting against peoples who were already cowering before me, and ready to admit me their master, I have had my say. Do you, Minos, make you decision. Though I could have said much, this is enough.

> Greek: 6. ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ: τὸ δ’ οὖν τελευταῖον ἐγὼ μὲν βασιλεύων ἀπέθανον, οὗτος δὲ ἐν φυγῇ ὢν παρὰ Προυσίᾳ τῷ Βιθυνῷ, καθάπερ ἄξιον ἦν πανουργότατον καὶ ὠμότατον ὄντα· ὡς γὰρ δὴ ἐκράτησεν τῶν Ἰταλῶν, ἐῶ λέγειν ὅτι οὐκ ἰσχύι, ἀλλὰ πονηρίᾳ καὶ ἀπιστίᾳ καὶ δόλοις, νόμιμον δὲ ἢ προφανὲς οὐδέν. ἐπεὶ δέ μοι ὠνείδισεν τὴν τρυφήν, ἐκλελῆσθαί μοι δοκεῖ οἷα ἐποίει ἐν Καπύῃ ἑταίραις συνὼν καὶ τοὺς τοῦ πολέμου καιροὺς ὁ θαυμάσιος καθηδυπαθῶν. ἐγὼ δὲ εἰ μὴ μικρὰ τὰ ἑσπέρια δόξας ἐπὶ τὴν ἕω μᾶλλον ὥρμησα, τί ἂν μέγα ἔπραξα Ἰταλίαν ἀναιμωτὶ λαβὼν καὶ Λιβύην καὶ τὰ μέχρι Γαδείρων ὑπαγόμενος; ἀλλ’ οὐκ ἀξιόμαχα ἔδοξέ μοι ἐκεῖνα ὑποπτήσσοντα ἤδη καὶ δεσπότην ὁμολογοῦντα. εἴρηκα· σὺ δέ, ὦ Μίνως, δίκαζε· ἱκανὰ γὰρ ἀπὸ πολλῶν καὶ ταῦτα.

[¶10] 7. SCIPIO: Do not do so yet, but hear what I have to say. MINOS: Who are you, my good man? Where do you come from, that you wish to speak? SCIPIO: From Italy. I am Scipio, the General who destroyed Carthage, and overcame the Libyans in mighty battle. MINOS: Well, what have you to say? SCIPIO: That I am a lesser man than Alexander, but superior to Hannibal, for I drove him before me, after defeating him, and forcing him to flee ignominiously. Is he not shameless, then, in posing as the rival of Alexander, with whom even I, Scipio, the conqueror of Hannibal, do not presume to compare myself? MINOS: By heaven, what you say, Scipio, is reasonable! So let Alexander be adjudged first, and after him you, and then, if you don’t mind, Hannibal third, though even he is of no little account.

> Greek: 7. ΣΚΙΠΙΩΝ: Μὴ πρότερον, ἢν μὴ καὶ ἐμοῦ ἀκούσῃς. ΜΙΝΩΣ: Τίς γὰρ εἶ, ὦ βέλτιστε; ἢ πόθεν ὢν ἐρεῖς; ΣΚΙΠΙΩΝ: Ἰταλιώτης Σκιπίων στρατηγὸς ὁ καθελὼν Καρχηδόνα καὶ κρατήσας Λιβύων μεγάλαις μάχαις. ΜΙΝΩΣ: Τί οὖν καὶ σὺ ἐρεῖς; ΣΚΙΠΙΩΝ: Ἀλεξάνδρου μὲν ἥττων εἶναι, τοῦ δὲ Ἀννίβου ἀμείνων, ὃς ἐδίωξα νικήσας αὐτὸν καὶ φυγεῖν καταναγκάσας ἀτίμως. πῶς οὖν οὐκ ἀναίσχυντος οὗτος, ὃς προς Ἀλέξανδρον ἁμιλλᾶται, ᾧ οὐδὲ Σκιπίων ἐγὼ ὁ νενικηκὼς ἐμαυτὸν παραβάλλεσθαι ἀξιῶ; ΜΙΝΩΣ: Νὴ Δί' εὐγνώμονα φῄς, ὦ Σκιπίων· ὥστε πρῶτος μὲν κεκρίσθω Ἀλέξανδρος, μετ' αὐτὸν δὲ σύ, εἶτα, εἰ δοκεῖ, τρίτος Ἀννίβας οὐδὲ οὗτος εὐκαταφρόνητος ὤν.