Brahmins · AN 3.60

AN 3.60 · With Saṅgārava

AN 3.60 · Saṅgāravasutta

Then Saṅgārava the brahmin went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha:

Atha kho saṅgāravo brāhmaṇo yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho saṅgāravo brāhmaṇo bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:

“Worthy Gotama, we who are called brahmins make sacrifices and encourage others to make sacrifices. Now, worthy Gotama, both of these people—the one who sacrifices and the one who encourages others to sacrifice—are doing good for many people on account of that sacrifice. But, worthy Gotama, when someone has gone forth from the lay life to homelessness, they tame, calm, and extinguish themselves alone. That being so, they are doing good for just one person on account of that going forth.”

“mayamassu, bho gotama, brāhmaṇā nāma. Yaññaṁ yajāmapi yajāpemapi. Tatra, bho gotama, yo ceva yajati yo ca yajāpeti sabbe te anekasārīrikaṁ puññappaṭipadaṁ paṭipannā honti, yadidaṁ yaññādhikaraṇaṁ. Yo panāyaṁ, bho gotama, yassa vā tassa vā kulā agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajito ekamattānaṁ dameti, ekamattānaṁ sameti, ekamattānaṁ parinibbāpeti, evamassāyaṁ ekasārīrikaṁ puññappaṭipadaṁ paṭipanno hoti, yadidaṁ pabbajjādhikaraṇan”ti.

“Well then, brahmin, I’ll ask you about this in return, and you can answer as you like. What do you think, brahmin? A Realized One arises in the world, perfected, a fully awakened Buddha, accomplished in knowledge and conduct, holy, knower of the world, supreme guide for those fit for training, teacher of gods and humans, awakened, blessed. He says, ‘Come, this is the path, this is the practice. Practicing like this, I realized the supreme objective of the spiritual life with my own insight, and I make it known. Please, all of you, practice like this, and you too will realize the supreme objective of the spiritual life, and will live having realized it with your own insight.’ So the Teacher teaches Dhamma, and others practice accordingly, in their hundreds and thousands, and hundreds of thousands.

“Tena hi, brāhmaṇa, taññevettha paṭipucchissāmi. Yathā te khameyya tathā naṁ byākareyyāsi. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, brāhmaṇa, idha tathāgato loke uppajjati arahaṁ sammāsambuddho vijjācaraṇasampanno sugato lokavidū anuttaro purisadammasārathi satthā devamanussānaṁ buddho bhagavā. So evamāha: ‘ethāyaṁ maggo ayaṁ paṭipadā yathāpaṭipanno ahaṁ anuttaraṁ brahmacariyogadhaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā pavedemi; etha, tumhepi tathā paṭipajjatha, yathāpaṭipannā tumhepi anuttaraṁ brahmacariyogadhaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharissathā’ti. Iti ayañceva satthā dhammaṁ deseti, pare ca tathatthāya paṭipajjanti, tāni kho pana honti anekānipi satāni anekānipi sahassāni anekānipi satasahassāni.

What do you think, brahmin? This being so, are they doing good for just one person or for many people on account of going forth?”

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, brāhmaṇa, iccāyaṁ evaṁ sante ekasārīrikā vā puññappaṭipadā hoti anekasārīrikā vā, yadidaṁ pabbajjādhikaraṇan”ti?

“This being so, worthy Gotama, they are doing good for many people on account of going forth.”

“Iccāyampi, bho gotama, evaṁ sante anekasārīrikā puññappaṭipadā hoti, yadidaṁ pabbajjādhikaraṇan”ti.

When he said this, Venerable Ānanda said to Saṅgārava, “Brahmin, which of these two practices do you believe has fewer obligations and undertakings, yet is more fruitful and beneficial?”

Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā ānando saṅgāravaṁ brāhmaṇaṁ etadavoca: “imāsaṁ te, brāhmaṇa, dvinnaṁ paṭipadānaṁ katamā paṭipadā khamati appatthatarā ca appasamārambhatarā ca mahapphalatarā ca mahānisaṁsatarā cā”ti?

Saṅgārava said to Ānanda, “Those such as the worthies Gotama and Ānanda are honored and praised by me!”

Evaṁ vutte, saṅgāravo brāhmaṇo āyasmantaṁ ānandaṁ etadavoca: “seyyathāpi bhavaṁ gotamo bhavaṁ cānando. Ete me pujjā, ete me pāsaṁsā”ti.

For a second time, Ānanda said to Saṅgārava, “Brahmin, I didn’t ask you who you honor and praise. I asked you which of these two practices do you believe has fewer obligations and undertakings, yet is more fruitful and beneficial?”

Dutiyampi kho āyasmā ānando saṅgāravaṁ brāhmaṇaṁ etadavoca: “na kho tyāhaṁ, brāhmaṇa, evaṁ pucchāmi: ‘ke vā te pujjā ke vā te pāsaṁsā’ti? Evaṁ kho tyāhaṁ, brāhmaṇa, pucchāmi: ‘imāsaṁ te, brāhmaṇa, dvinnaṁ paṭipadānaṁ katamā paṭipadā khamati appatthatarā ca appasamārambhatarā ca mahapphalatarā ca mahānisaṁsatarā cā’”ti?

For a second time Saṅgārava said to Ānanda, “Those such as the worthies Gotama and Ānanda are honored and praised by me!”

Dutiyampi kho saṅgāravo brāhmaṇo āyasmantaṁ ānandaṁ etadavoca: “seyyathāpi bhavaṁ gotamo bhavaṁ cānando. Ete me pujjā, ete me pāsaṁsā”ti.

For a third time, Ānanda said to Saṅgārava, “Brahmin, I didn’t ask you who you honor and praise. I asked you which of these two practices do you believe has fewer obligations and undertakings, yet is more fruitful and beneficial?”

Tatiyampi kho āyasmā ānando saṅgāravaṁ brāhmaṇaṁ etadavoca: “na kho tyāhaṁ, brāhmaṇa, evaṁ pucchāmi: ‘ke vā te pujjā ke vā te pāsaṁsā’ti? Evaṁ kho tyāhaṁ, brāhmaṇa, pucchāmi: ‘imāsaṁ te, brāhmaṇa, dvinnaṁ paṭipadānaṁ katamā paṭipadā khamati appatthatarā ca appasamārambhatarā ca mahapphalatarā ca mahānisaṁsatarā cā’”ti?

For a third time Saṅgārava said to Ānanda, “Those such as the worthies Gotama and Ānanda are honored and praised by me!”

Tatiyampi kho saṅgāravo brāhmaṇo āyasmantaṁ ānandaṁ etadavoca: “seyyathāpi bhavaṁ gotamo bhavaṁ cānando. Ete me pujjā, ete me pāsaṁsā”ti.

Then it occurred to the Buddha, “Though Ānanda asked him a sensible question three times, Saṅgārava falters without answering. Why don’t I give him a way out?”

Atha kho bhagavato etadahosi: “yāva tatiyampi kho saṅgāravo brāhmaṇo ānandena sahadhammikaṁ pañhaṁ puṭṭho saṁsādeti no vissajjeti. Yannūnāhaṁ parimoceyyan”ti.

So the Buddha said to Saṅgārava, “Brahmin, what came up in the conversation among the king’s retinue today, sitting together in the royal compound?”

Atha kho bhagavā saṅgāravaṁ brāhmaṇaṁ etadavoca: “kā nvajja, brāhmaṇa, rājantepure rājapurisānaṁ sannisinnānaṁ sannipatitānaṁ antarākathā udapādī”ti?

“Worthy Gotama, this came up: ‘Formerly, it seems, there were fewer mendicants, but more of them displayed superhuman demonstrations of psychic power; while these days, there are more mendicants, but fewer display superhuman demonstrations of psychic power.’ This is what came up in the conversation among the king’s retinue today, while sitting together in the royal compound.”

“Ayaṁ khvajja, bho gotama, rājantepure rājapurisānaṁ sannisinnānaṁ sannipatitānaṁ antarākathā udapādi: ‘pubbe sudaṁ appatarā ceva bhikkhū ahesuṁ bahutarā ca uttari manussadhammā iddhipāṭihāriyaṁ dassesuṁ; etarahi pana bahutarā ceva bhikkhū appatarā ca uttari manussadhammā iddhipāṭihāriyaṁ dassentī’ti. Ayaṁ khvajja, bho gotama, rājantepure rājapurisānaṁ sannisinnānaṁ sannipatitānaṁ antarākathā udapādī”ti.

“Brahmin, there are three kinds of demonstration. What three? A demonstration of psychic power, a demonstration of revealing, and a demonstration of instruction.

“Tīṇi kho imāni, brāhmaṇa, pāṭihāriyāni. Katamāni tīṇi? Iddhipāṭihāriyaṁ, ādesanāpāṭihāriyaṁ, anusāsanīpāṭihāriyaṁ.

And what is the demonstration of psychic power? It’s when someone wields the many kinds of psychic power: multiplying themselves and becoming one again; materializing and dematerializing; going unobstructed through a wall, a rampart, or a mountain as if through space; diving in and out of the earth as if it were water; walking on water as if it were earth; flying cross-legged through the sky like a bird; touching and stroking with the hand the sun and moon, so mighty and powerful. They control the body as far as the realm of divinity. This is called the demonstration of psychic power.

Katamañca, brāhmaṇa, iddhipāṭihāriyaṁ? Idha, brāhmaṇa, ekacco anekavihitaṁ iddhividhaṁ paccanubhoti: ‘ekopi hutvā bahudhā hoti, bahudhāpi hutvā eko hoti; āvibhāvaṁ, tirobhāvaṁ; tirokuṭṭaṁ tiropākāraṁ tiropabbataṁ asajjamāno gacchati, seyyathāpi ākāse; pathaviyāpi ummujjanimujjaṁ karoti, seyyathāpi udake; udakepi abhijjamāne gacchati, seyyathāpi pathaviyaṁ; ākāsepi pallaṅkena kamati, seyyathāpi pakkhī sakuṇo; imepi candimasūriye evaṁmahiddhike evaṁmahānubhāve pāṇinā parimasati parimajjati, yāva brahmalokāpi kāyena vasaṁ vatteti’. Idaṁ vuccati, brāhmaṇa, iddhipāṭihāriyaṁ.

And what is the demonstration of revealing? In one case, someone reveals by means of a sign: ‘This is what you’re thinking, such is your thought, and thus is your state of mind.’ And even if they reveal this many times, it turns out exactly so, not otherwise.

Katamañca, brāhmaṇa, ādesanāpāṭihāriyaṁ? Idha, brāhmaṇa, ekacco nimittena ādisati: ‘evampi te mano, itthampi te mano, itipi te cittan’ti. So bahuñcepi ādisati tatheva taṁ hoti, no aññathā.

In another case, someone reveals after hearing it from humans or non-humans or deities: ‘This is what you’re thinking, such is your thought, and thus is your state of mind.’ And even if they reveal this many times, it turns out exactly so, not otherwise.

Idha pana, brāhmaṇa, ekacco na heva kho nimittena ādisati, api ca kho manussānaṁ vā amanussānaṁ vā devatānaṁ vā saddaṁ sutvā ādisati: ‘evampi te mano, itthampi te mano, itipi te cittan’ti. So bahuñcepi ādisati tatheva taṁ hoti, no aññathā.

In another case, someone reveals by hearing the sound of thought spreading as someone thinks and considers: ‘This is what you’re thinking, such is your thought, and thus is your state of mind.’ And even if they reveal this many times, it turns out exactly so, not otherwise.

Idha pana, brāhmaṇa, ekacco na heva kho nimittena ādisati napi manussānaṁ vā amanussānaṁ vā devatānaṁ vā saddaṁ sutvā ādisati, api ca kho vitakkayato vicārayato vitakkavipphārasaddaṁ sutvā ādisati: ‘evampi te mano, itthampi te mano, itipi te cittan’ti. So bahuñcepi ādisati tatheva taṁ hoti, no aññathā.

In another case, someone comprehends the mind of one who has attained the immersion that’s free of placing the mind and keeping it connected. They understand: ‘Judging by the way this worthy’s intentions are directed, immediately after this mind state, they’ll think this thought.’ And even if they reveal this many times, it turns out exactly so, not otherwise. This is called the demonstration of revealing.

Idha pana, brāhmaṇa, ekacco na heva kho nimittena ādisati, napi manussānaṁ vā amanussānaṁ vā devatānaṁ vā saddaṁ sutvā ādisati, napi vitakkayato vicārayato vitakkavipphārasaddaṁ sutvā ādisati, api ca kho avitakkaṁ avicāraṁ samādhiṁ samāpannassa cetasā ceto paricca pajānāti: ‘yathā imassa bhoto manosaṅkhārā paṇihitā imassa cittassa anantarā amuṁ nāma vitakkaṁ vitakkessatī’ti. So bahuñcepi ādisati tatheva taṁ hoti, no aññathā. Idaṁ vuccati, brāhmaṇa, ādesanāpāṭihāriyaṁ.

And what is a demonstration of instruction? It’s when someone instructs others like this: ‘Think like this, not like that. Focus your mind like this, not like that. Give up this, and live having achieved that.’ This is called a demonstration of instruction.

Katamañca, brāhmaṇa, anusāsanīpāṭihāriyaṁ? Idha, brāhmaṇa, ekacco evamanusāsati: ‘evaṁ vitakketha, mā evaṁ vitakkayittha; evaṁ manasi karotha, mā evaṁ manasākattha; idaṁ pajahatha, idaṁ upasampajja viharathā’ti. Idaṁ vuccati, brāhmaṇa, anusāsanīpāṭihāriyaṁ.

These are the three kinds of demonstration. Of these three kinds of demonstration, which do you consider to be the finest?”

Imāni kho, brāhmaṇa, tīṇi pāṭihāriyāni. Imesaṁ te, brāhmaṇa, tiṇṇaṁ pāṭihāriyānaṁ katamaṁ pāṭihāriyaṁ khamati abhikkantatarañca paṇītatarañcā”ti?

“Regarding this, worthy Gotama, a demonstration of psychic power is experienced only by the one who performs it, occurring only to them. This seems to me like an illusion.

“Tatra, bho gotama, yadidaṁ pāṭihāriyaṁ idhekacco anekavihitaṁ iddhividhaṁ paccanubhoti …pe… yāva brāhmalokāpi kāyena vasaṁ vatteti, idaṁ, bho gotama, pāṭihāriyaṁ yova naṁ karoti sova naṁ paṭisaṁvedeti, yova naṁ karoti tasseva taṁ hoti. Idaṁ me, bho gotama, pāṭihāriyaṁ māyāsahadhammarūpaṁ viya khāyati.

And the demonstration where someone reveals something by means of a sign, or after hearing it from humans, non-humans, or deities, or by hearing the sound of thought spreading as someone thinks and considers, or by comprehending the mind of another, is also experienced only by the one who performs it, occurring only to them. This also seems to me like an illusion.

Yampidaṁ, bho gotama, pāṭihāriyaṁ idhekacco nimittena ādisati: ‘evampi te mano, itthampi te mano, itipi te cittan’ti, so bahuñcepi ādisati tatheva taṁ hoti, no aññathā. Idha pana, bho gotama, ekacco na heva kho nimittena ādisati, api ca kho manussānaṁ vā amanussānaṁ vā devatānaṁ vā saddaṁ sutvā ādisati …pe… napi manussānaṁ vā amanussānaṁ vā devatānaṁ vā saddaṁ sutvā ādisati, api ca kho vitakkayato vicārayato vitakkavipphārasaddaṁ sutvā ādisati …pe… napi vitakkayato vicārayato vitakkavipphārasaddaṁ sutvā ādisati, api ca kho avitakkaṁ avicāraṁ samādhiṁ samāpannassa cetasā ceto paricca pajānāti: ‘yathā imassa bhoto manosaṅkhārā paṇihitā imassa cittassa anantarā amhaṁ nāma vitakkaṁ vitakkessatī’ti, so bahuñcepi ādisati tatheva taṁ hoti, no aññathā. Idampi, bho gotama, pāṭihāriyaṁ yova naṁ karoti sova naṁ paṭisaṁvedeti, yova naṁ karoti tasseva taṁ hoti. Idampi me, bho gotama, pāṭihāriyaṁ māyāsahadhammarūpaṁ viya khāyati.

But as to the demonstration where someone instructs others: ‘Think like this, not like that. Focus your mind like this, not like that. Give up this, and live having achieved that.’ I prefer this demonstration, worthy Gotama. It’s the finest of the three kinds of demonstration.

Yañca kho idaṁ, bho gotama, pāṭihāriyaṁ idhekacco evaṁ anusāsati: ‘evaṁ vitakketha, mā evaṁ vitakkayittha; evaṁ manasi karotha, mā evaṁ manasākattha; idaṁ pajahatha, idaṁ upasampajja viharathā’ti. Idameva, bho gotama, pāṭihāriyaṁ khamati imesaṁ tiṇṇaṁ pāṭihāriyānaṁ abhikkantatarañca paṇītatarañca.

It’s incredible, worthy Gotama, it’s amazing, how well this was said by the worthy Gotama. We regard the worthy Gotama as someone who possesses these three kinds of demonstration. For the worthy Gotama wields the many kinds of psychic power … controlling the body as far as the realm of divinity. And Worthy Gotama comprehends the mind of another who has attained the immersion that is free of placing the mind and keeping it connected. He understands: ‘Judging by the way this worthy’s intentions are directed, immediately after this mind state they’ll think this thought.’ And the worthy Gotama instructs others like this: ‘Think like this, not like that. Focus your mind like this, not like that. Give up this, and live having achieved that.’”

Acchariyaṁ, bho gotama, abbhutaṁ, bho gotama. Yāvasubhāsitamidaṁ bhotā gotamena imehi ca mayaṁ tīhi pāṭihāriyehi samannāgataṁ bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ dhārema. Bhavañhi gotamo anekavihitaṁ iddhividhaṁ paccanubhoti …pe… yāva brahmalokāpi kāyena vasaṁ vatteti, bhavañhi gotamo avitakkaṁ avicāraṁ samādhiṁ samāpannassa cetasā ceto paricca pajānāti: ‘yathā imassa bhoto manosaṅkhārā paṇihitā imassa cittassa anantarā amuṁ nāma vitakkaṁ vitakkessatī’ti. Bhavañhi gotamo evamanusāsati: ‘evaṁ vitakketha, mā evaṁ vitakkayittha; evaṁ manasi karotha, mā evaṁ manasākattha; idaṁ pajahatha, idaṁ upasampajja viharathā’”ti.

“Your words are clearly invasive and intrusive, brahmin. Nevertheless, I will answer you. For I do wield the many kinds of psychic power … controlling the body as far as the realm of divinity. And I do comprehend the mind of another individual who has attained the immersion that is free of placing the mind and keeping it connected. I understand: ‘Judging by the way this worthy’s intentions are directed, immediately after this mind state they’ll think this thought.’ And I do instruct others like this: ‘Think like this, not like that. Focus your mind like this, not like that. Give up this, and live having achieved that.’”

“Addhā kho tyāhaṁ, brāhmaṇa, āsajja upanīya vācā bhāsitā; api ca tyāhaṁ byākarissāmi. Ahañhi, brāhmaṇa, anekavihitaṁ iddhividhaṁ paccanubhomi …pe… yāva brahmalokāpi kāyena vasaṁ vattemi. Ahañhi, brāhmaṇa, avitakkaṁ avicāraṁ samādhiṁ samāpannassa cetasā ceto paricca pajānāmi: ‘yathā imassa bhoto manosaṅkhārā paṇihitā, imassa cittassa anantarā amuṁ nāma vitakkaṁ vitakkessatī’ti. Ahañhi, brāhmaṇa, evamanusāsāmi: ‘evaṁ vitakketha, mā evaṁ vitakkayittha; evaṁ manasi karotha, mā evaṁ manasākattha; idaṁ pajahatha, idaṁ upasampajja viharathā’”ti.

“But worthy Gotama, is there even one other mendicant who possesses these three kinds of demonstration, apart from the worthy Gotama?”

“Atthi pana, bho gotama, añño ekabhikkhupi yo imehi tīhi pāṭihāriyehi samannāgato, aññatra bhotā gotamenā”ti?

“There’s not just one hundred mendicants, brahmin, who possess these three kinds of demonstration, nor two, three, four, or five hundred, but many more than that.”

“Na kho, brāhmaṇa, ekaṁyeva sataṁ na dve satāni na tīṇi satāni na cattāri satāni na pañca satāni, atha kho bhiyyova, ye bhikkhū imehi tīhi pāṭihāriyehi samannāgatā”ti.

“But where are these mendicants now staying?”

“Kahaṁ pana, bho gotama, etarahi te bhikkhū viharantī”ti?

“Right here, brahmin, in this Saṅgha of mendicants.”

“Imasmiṁyeva kho, brāhmaṇa, bhikkhusaṅghe”ti.

“Excellent, worthy Gotama! Excellent! As if he were righting the overturned, or revealing the hidden, or pointing out the path to the lost, or lighting a lamp in the dark so people with clear eyes can see what’s there, worthy Gotama has made the teaching clear in many ways. I go for refuge to the worthy Gotama, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Saṅgha. From this day forth, may the worthy Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”

“Abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama, abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama. Seyyathāpi, bho gotama, nikkujjitaṁ vā ukkujjeyya, paṭicchannaṁ vā vivareyya, mūḷhassa vā maggaṁ ācikkheyya, andhakāre vā telapajjotaṁ dhāreyya: ‘cakkhumanto rūpāni dakkhantī’ti; evamevaṁ bhotā gotamena anekapariyāyena dhammo pakāsito. Esāhaṁ bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāmi, dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca. Upāsakaṁ maṁ bhavaṁ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti.