The Great Chapter · AN 3.64–3.67

AN 3.64 · With Sarabha

AN 3.64 · Sarabhasutta

So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Rājagaha, on the Vulture’s Peak Mountain.

Evaṁ me sutaṁ— ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā rājagahe viharati gijjhakūṭe pabbate.

Now at that time a wanderer named Sarabha had recently left this teaching and training. He was telling a crowd in Rājagaha, “I learned the teaching of the ascetics who follow the Sakyan, then I left their teaching and training.”

Tena kho pana samayena sarabho nāma paribbājako acirapakkanto hoti imasmā dhammavinayā. So rājagahe parisati evaṁ vācaṁ bhāsati: “aññāto mayā samaṇānaṁ sakyaputtikānaṁ dhammo. Aññāya ca panāhaṁ samaṇānaṁ sakyaputtikānaṁ dhammaṁ evāhaṁ tasmā dhammavinayā apakkanto”ti.

Then several mendicants robed up in the morning and, taking their bowls and robes, entered Rājagaha for alms. They heard what Sarabha was saying.

Atha kho sambahulā bhikkhū pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya rājagahaṁ piṇḍāya pavisiṁsu. Assosuṁ kho te bhikkhū sarabhassa paribbājakassa rājagahe parisati evaṁ vācaṁ bhāsamānassa: “aññāto mayā samaṇānaṁ sakyaputtikānaṁ dhammo. Aññāya ca panāhaṁ samaṇānaṁ sakyaputtikānaṁ dhammaṁ evāhaṁ tasmā dhammavinayā apakkanto”ti.

Then, after the meal, when they returned from almsround, they went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and said to him, “The wanderer named Sarabha has recently left this teaching and training. He was telling a crowd in Rājagaha: ‘I learned the teaching of the ascetics who follow the Sakyan, then I left their teaching and training.’ Worthy sir, please go to the wanderers’ monastery on the bank of the Serpentine River to see Sarabha the wanderer out of sympathy.” The Buddha consented with silence.

Atha kho te bhikkhū rājagahe piṇḍāya caritvā pacchābhattaṁ piṇḍapātapaṭikkantā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu. Ekamantaṁ nisinnā kho te bhikkhū bhagavantaṁ etadavocuṁ: “sarabho nāma, bhante, paribbājako acirapakkanto imasmā dhammavinayā. So rājagahe parisati evaṁ vācaṁ bhāsati: ‘aññāto mayā samaṇānaṁ sakyaputtikānaṁ dhammo. Aññāya ca panāhaṁ samaṇānaṁ sakyaputtikānaṁ dhammaṁ evāhaṁ tasmā dhammavinayā apakkanto’ti. Sādhu, bhante, bhagavā yena sippinikātīraṁ paribbājakārāmo yena sarabho paribbājako tenupasaṅkamatu anukampaṁ upādāyā”ti. Adhivāsesi bhagavā tuṇhībhāvena.

Then in the late afternoon, the Buddha came out of retreat and went to the wanderers’ monastery on the bank of the Serpentine River to visit Sarabha the wanderer. He sat down on the seat spread out and said to the wanderer Sarabha, “Is it really true, Sarabha, that you’ve been saying: ‘I learned the teaching of the ascetics who follow the Sakyan, then I left their teaching and training.’” When he said this, Sarabha kept silent.

Atha kho bhagavā sāyanhasamayaṁ paṭisallānā vuṭṭhito yena sippinikātīraṁ paribbājakārāmo yena sarabho paribbājako tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā paññatte āsane nisīdi. Nisajja kho bhagavā sarabhaṁ paribbājakaṁ etadavoca: “saccaṁ kira tvaṁ, sarabha, evaṁ vadesi: ‘aññāto mayā samaṇānaṁ sakyaputtikānaṁ dhammo. Aññāya ca panāhaṁ samaṇānaṁ sakyaputtikānaṁ dhammaṁ evāhaṁ tasmā dhammavinayā apakkanto’”ti? Evaṁ vutte, sarabho paribbājako tuṇhī ahosi.

For a second time, the Buddha said to Sarabha, “Tell me, Sarabha, what exactly have you learned of the teachings of the ascetics who follow the Sakyan? If you’ve not learned it fully, I’ll fill you in. But if you have learned it fully, I’ll agree.” For a second time, Sarabha kept silent.

Dutiyampi kho bhagavā sarabhaṁ paribbājakaṁ etadavoca: “vadehi, sarabha, kinti te aññāto samaṇānaṁ sakyaputtikānaṁ dhammo? Sace te aparipūraṁ bhavissati, ahaṁ paripūressāmi. Sace pana te paripūraṁ bhavissati, ahaṁ anumodissāmī”ti. Dutiyampi kho sarabho paribbājako tuṇhī ahosi.

For a third time, the Buddha said to Sarabha, “Sarabha, the teachings of the ascetics who follow the Sakyan are clear to me. What exactly have you learned of the teachings of the ascetics who follow the Sakyan? If you’ve not learned it fully, I’ll fill you in. But if you have learned it fully, I’ll agree.” For a third time, Sarabha kept silent.

Tatiyampi kho bhagavā sarabhaṁ paribbājakaṁ etadavoca: “yo kho, sarabha, paññāyati samaṇānaṁ sakyaputtikānaṁ dhammo vadehi, sarabha, kinti te aññāto samaṇānaṁ sakyaputtikānaṁ dhammo? Sace te aparipūraṁ bhavissati, ahaṁ paripūressāmi. Sace pana te paripūraṁ bhavissati, ahaṁ anumodissāmī”ti. Tatiyampi kho sarabho paribbājako tuṇhī ahosi.

Then those wanderers said to Sarabha, “The ascetic Gotama has offered to tell you anything you ask for. Speak, reverend Sarabha, what exactly have you learned of the teachings of the ascetics who follow the Sakyan? If you’ve not learned it fully, he’ll fill you in. But if you have learned it fully, he’ll agree.” When this was said, Sarabha sat silent, dismayed, shoulders drooping, downcast, depressed, with nothing to say.

Atha kho te paribbājakā sarabhaṁ paribbājakaṁ etadavocuṁ: “yadeva kho tvaṁ, āvuso sarabha, samaṇaṁ gotamaṁ yāceyyāsi tadeva te samaṇo gotamo pavāreti. Vadehāvuso sarabha, kinti te aññāto samaṇānaṁ sakyaputtikānaṁ dhammo? Sace te aparipūraṁ bhavissati, samaṇo gotamo paripūressati. Sace pana te paripūraṁ bhavissati, samaṇo gotamo anumodissatī”ti. Evaṁ vutte, sarabho paribbājako tuṇhībhūto maṅkubhūto pattakkhandho adhomukho pajjhāyanto appaṭibhāno nisīdi.

Knowing this, the Buddha said to the wanderers:

Atha kho bhagavā sarabhaṁ paribbājakaṁ tuṇhībhūtaṁ maṅkubhūtaṁ pattakkhandhaṁ adhomukhaṁ pajjhāyantaṁ appaṭibhānaṁ viditvā te paribbājake etadavoca:

“Wanderers, someone might say to me: ‘You claim to be a fully awakened Buddha, but you don’t understand these things.’ Then I’d carefully pursue, press, and grill them on that point. When grilled by me, they would, without a doubt, fall into one of these three categories. They’d dodge the issue, distracting the discussion with irrelevant points. They’d display annoyance, hate, and bitterness. Or they’d sit silent, dismayed, shoulders drooping, downcast, depressed, with nothing to say, like Sarabha.

“Yo kho maṁ, paribbājakā, evaṁ vadeyya: ‘sammāsambuddhassa te paṭijānato ime dhammā anabhisambuddhā’ti, tamahaṁ tattha sādhukaṁ samanuyuñjeyyaṁ samanugāheyyaṁ samanubhāseyyaṁ. So vata mayā sādhukaṁ samanuyuñjiyamāno samanugāhiyamāno samanubhāsiyamāno aṭṭhānametaṁ anavakāso yaṁ so tiṇṇaṁ ṭhānānaṁ nāññataraṁ ṭhānaṁ nigaccheyya, aññena vā aññaṁ paṭicarissati, bahiddhā kathaṁ apanāmessati, kopañca dosañca appaccayañca pātukarissati, tuṇhībhūto maṅkubhūto pattakkhandho adhomukho pajjhāyanto appaṭibhāno nisīdissati, seyyathāpi sarabho paribbājako.

Wanderers, someone might say to me: ‘You claim to have ended all defilements, but you still have these defilements.’ Then I’d carefully pursue, press, and grill them on that point. When grilled by me, they would, without a doubt, fall into one of these three categories. They’d dodge the issue, distracting the discussion with irrelevant points. They’d display annoyance, hate, and bitterness. Or they’d sit silent, dismayed, shoulders drooping, downcast, depressed, with nothing to say, like Sarabha.

Yo kho maṁ, paribbājakā, evaṁ vadeyya: ‘khīṇāsavassa te paṭijānato ime āsavā aparikkhīṇā’ti, tamahaṁ tattha sādhukaṁ samanuyuñjeyyaṁ samanugāheyyaṁ samanubhāseyyaṁ. So vata mayā sādhukaṁ samanuyuñjiyamāno samanugāhiyamāno samanubhāsiyamāno aṭṭhānametaṁ anavakāso yaṁ so tiṇṇaṁ ṭhānānaṁ nāññataraṁ ṭhānaṁ nigaccheyya, aññena vā aññaṁ paṭicarissati, bahiddhā kathaṁ apanāmessati, kopañca dosañca appaccayañca pātukarissati, tuṇhībhūto maṅkubhūto pattakkhandho adhomukho pajjhāyanto appaṭibhāno nisīdissati, seyyathāpi sarabho paribbājako.

Wanderers, someone might say to me: ‘Regardless of your goal in teaching the Dhamma, it does not deliver one who applies it to the complete ending of suffering.’ Then I’d carefully pursue, press, and grill them on that point. When grilled by me, they would, without a doubt, fall into one of these three categories. They’d dodge the issue, distracting the discussion with irrelevant points. They’d display annoyance, hate, and bitterness. Or they’d sit silent, dismayed, shoulders drooping, downcast, depressed, with nothing to say, like Sarabha.”

Yo kho maṁ, paribbājakā, evaṁ vadeyya: ‘yassa kho pana te atthāya dhammo desito, so na niyyāti takkarassa sammā dukkhakkhayāyā’ti, tamahaṁ tattha sādhukaṁ samanuyuñjeyyaṁ samanugāheyyaṁ samanubhāseyyaṁ. So vata mayā sādhukaṁ samanuyuñjiyamāno samanugāhiyamāno samanubhāsiyamāno aṭṭhānametaṁ anavakāso yaṁ so tiṇṇaṁ ṭhānānaṁ nāññataraṁ ṭhānaṁ nigaccheyya, aññena vā aññaṁ paṭicarissati, bahiddhā kathaṁ apanāmessati, kopañca dosañca appaccayañca pātukarissati, tuṇhībhūto maṅkubhūto pattakkhandho adhomukho pajjhāyanto appaṭibhāno nisīdissati, seyyathāpi sarabho paribbājako”ti.

Then the Buddha, having roared his lion’s roar three times in the monastery for the wanderers on the bank of the Serpentine River, rose into the air and flew away.

Atha kho bhagavā sippinikātīre paribbājakārāme tikkhattuṁ sīhanādaṁ naditvā vehāsaṁ pakkāmi.

Soon after the Buddha left, those wanderers beset Sarabha on all sides with sneering and jeering. “Reverend Sarabha, you’re just like an old jackal in the formidable wilderness who thinks, ‘I’ll roar a lion’s roar!’ but they still only manage to squeal and yelp like a jackal. In the same way, when the ascetic Gotama wasn’t here you said ‘I’ll roar a lion’s roar!’ but you only managed to squeal and yelp like a jackal.

Atha kho te paribbājakā acirapakkantassa bhagavato sarabhaṁ paribbājakaṁ samantato vācāyasannitodakena sañjambharimakaṁsu: “seyyathāpi, āvuso sarabha, brahāraññe jarasiṅgālo ‘sīhanādaṁ nadissāmī’ti siṅgālakaṁyeva nadati, bheraṇḍakaṁyeva nadati; evamevaṁ kho tvaṁ, āvuso sarabha, aññatreva samaṇena gotamena ‘sīhanādaṁ nadissāmī’ti siṅgālakaṁyeva nadasi bheraṇḍakaṁyeva nadasi.

You’re just like a marsh hen who thinks, ‘I’ll cry like a cuckoo!’ but they still only manage to cry like a marsh hen. In the same way, when the ascetic Gotama wasn’t here you said ‘I’ll cry like a cuckoo!’ but you still only managed to cry like a marsh hen.

Seyyathāpi, āvuso sarabha, ambukasañcarī ‘purisakaravitaṁ ravissāmī’ti ambukasañcariravitaṁyeva ravati; evamevaṁ kho tvaṁ, āvuso sarabha, aññatreva samaṇena gotamena ‘purisakaravitaṁ ravissāmī’ti, ambukasañcariravitaṁyeva ravasi.

You’re just like a bull that thinks to bellow only when the cowstall is empty. In the same way, you only thought to bellow when the ascetic Gotama wasn’t here.” That’s how those wanderers beset Sarabha on all sides with sneering and jeering.

Seyyathāpi, āvuso sarabha, usabho suññāya gosālāya gambhīraṁ naditabbaṁ maññati; evamevaṁ kho tvaṁ, āvuso sarabha, aññatreva samaṇena gotamena gambhīraṁ naditabbaṁ maññasī”ti. Atha kho te paribbājakā sarabhaṁ paribbājakaṁ samantato vācāyasannitodakena sañjambharimakaṁsūti.

AN 3.65 · With the Kālāmas of Kesamutta

AN 3.65 · Kesamuttisutta

So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was wandering in the land of the Kosalans together with a large Saṅgha of mendicants when he arrived at a town of the Kālāmas named Kesamutta. The Kālāmas of Kesamutta heard:

Evaṁ me sutaṁ— ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā kosalesu cārikaṁ caramāno mahatā bhikkhusaṅghena saddhiṁ yena kesamuttaṁ nāma kālāmānaṁ nigamo tadavasari. Assosuṁ kho kesamuttiyā kālāmā:

“It seems the ascetic Gotama—a Sakyan, gone forth from a Sakyan family—has arrived at Kesamutta. He has this good reputation: ‘That Blessed One is perfected, a fully awakened Buddha …’ It’s good to see such perfected ones.”

“samaṇo khalu, bho, gotamo sakyaputto sakyakulā pabbajito kesamuttaṁ anuppatto. Taṁ kho pana bhavantaṁ gotamaṁ evaṁ kalyāṇo kittisaddo abbhuggato: ‘itipi so bhagavā …pe… sādhu kho pana tathārūpānaṁ arahataṁ dassanaṁ hotī’”ti.

Then the Kālāmas went up to the Buddha. Before sitting down to one side, some bowed, some exchanged greetings and polite conversation, some held up their cupped palms toward the Buddha, some announced their name and clan, while some kept silent. Seated to one side the Kālāmas said to the Buddha:

Atha kho kesamuttiyā kālāmā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā appekacce bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu, appekacce bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodiṁsu, sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu, appekacce yena bhagavā tenañjaliṁ paṇāmetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu, appekacce nāmagottaṁ sāvetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu, appekacce tuṇhībhūtā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu. Ekamantaṁ nisinnā kho te kesamuttiyā kālāmā bhagavantaṁ etadavocuṁ:

“There are, sir, some ascetics and brahmins who come to Kesamutta. They explain and promote only their own doctrine, while they attack, badmouth, disparage, and smear the doctrines of others. Then some other ascetics and brahmins come to Kesamutta. They too explain and promote only their own doctrine, while they attack, badmouth, disparage, and smear the doctrines of others. So, sir, we’re doubting and uncertain: ‘I wonder who of these respected ascetics and brahmins speaks the truth, and who speaks falsehood?’”

“Santi, bhante, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kesamuttaṁ āgacchanti. Te sakaṁyeva vādaṁ dīpenti jotenti, parappavādaṁ pana khuṁsenti vambhenti paribhavanti omakkhiṁ karonti. Aparepi, bhante, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kesamuttaṁ āgacchanti. Tepi sakaṁyeva vādaṁ dīpenti jotenti, parappavādaṁ pana khuṁsenti vambhenti paribhavanti omakkhiṁ karonti. Tesaṁ no, bhante, amhākaṁ hoteva kaṅkhā hoti vicikicchā: ‘ko su nāma imesaṁ bhavataṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ saccaṁ āha, ko musā’”ti?

“It is enough, Kālāmas, for you to be doubting and uncertain. Doubt has come up in you about an uncertain matter.

“Alañhi vo, kālāmā, kaṅkhituṁ alaṁ vicikicchituṁ. Kaṅkhanīyeva pana vo ṭhāne vicikicchā uppannā.

Please, Kālāmas, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think ‘The ascetic is our respected teacher.’ But when you know for yourselves: ‘These things are unskillful, blameworthy, criticized by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering’, then you should give them up.

Etha tumhe, kālāmā, mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā samaṇo no garūti. Yadā tumhe, kālāmā, attanāva jāneyyātha: ‘ime dhammā akusalā, ime dhammā sāvajjā, ime dhammā viññugarahitā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattantī’ti, atha tumhe, kālāmā, pajaheyyātha.

What do you think, Kālāmas? Does greed come up in a person for their welfare or harm?”

Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, kālāmā, lobho purisassa ajjhattaṁ uppajjamāno uppajjati hitāya vā ahitāya vā”ti?

“Harm, sir.”

“Ahitāya, bhante”.

“A greedy individual, overcome by greed, kills living creatures, steals, commits adultery, lies, and encourages others to do the same. Is that for their lasting harm and suffering?”

“Luddho panāyaṁ, kālāmā, purisapuggalo lobhena abhibhūto pariyādinnacitto pāṇampi hanati, adinnampi ādiyati, paradārampi gacchati, musāpi bhaṇati, parampi tathattāya samādapeti, yaṁ sa hoti dīgharattaṁ ahitāya dukkhāyā”ti.

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“What do you think, Kālāmas? Does hate come up in a person for their welfare or harm?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, kālāmā, doso purisassa ajjhattaṁ uppajjamāno uppajjati hitāya vā ahitāya vā”ti?

“Harm, sir.”

“Ahitāya, bhante”.

“A hateful individual, overcome by hate, kills living creatures, steals, commits adultery, lies, and encourages others to do the same. Is that for their lasting harm and suffering?”

“Duṭṭho panāyaṁ, kālāmā, purisapuggalo dosena abhibhūto pariyādinnacitto pāṇampi hanati, adinnampi ādiyati, paradārampi gacchati, musāpi bhaṇati, parampi tathattāya samādapeti, yaṁ sa hoti dīgharattaṁ ahitāya dukkhāyā”ti.

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“What do you think, Kālāmas? Does delusion come up in a person for their welfare or harm?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, kālāmā, moho purisassa ajjhattaṁ uppajjamāno uppajjati hitāya vā ahitāya vā”ti?

“Harm, sir.”

“Ahitāya, bhante”.

“A deluded individual, overcome by delusion, kills living creatures, steals, commits adultery, lies, and encourages others to do the same. Is that for their lasting harm and suffering?”

“Mūḷho panāyaṁ, kālāmā, purisapuggalo mohena abhibhūto pariyādinnacitto pāṇampi hanati, adinnampi ādiyati, paradārampi gacchati, musāpi bhaṇati, parampi tathattāya samādapeti, yaṁ sa hoti dīgharattaṁ ahitāya dukkhāyā”ti.

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“What do you think, Kālāmas, are these things skillful or unskillful?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, kālāmā, ime dhammā kusalā vā akusalā vā”ti?

“Unskillful, sir.”

“Akusalā, bhante”.

“Blameworthy or blameless?”

“Sāvajjā vā anavajjā vā”ti?

“Blameworthy, sir.”

“Sāvajjā, bhante”.

“Criticized or praised by sensible people?”

“Viññugarahitā vā viññuppasatthā vā”ti?

“Criticized by sensible people, sir.”

“Viññugarahitā, bhante”.

“When you undertake them, do they lead to harm and suffering, or not? Or how do you see this?”

“Samattā samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattanti, no vā? Kathaṁ vā ettha hotī”ti?

“When you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering. That’s how we see it.”

“Samattā, bhante, samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattantīti. Evaṁ no ettha hotī”ti.

“So, Kālāmas, when I said: ‘Please, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think “The ascetic is our respected teacher.” But when you know for yourselves: “These things are unskillful, blameworthy, criticized by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering”, then you should give them up.’ That’s what I said, and this is why I said it.

“Iti kho, kālāmā, yaṁ taṁ avocumhā: ‘etha tumhe, kālāmā. Mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā samaṇo no garūti. Yadā tumhe kālāmā attanāva jāneyyātha: “ime dhammā akusalā, ime dhammā sāvajjā, ime dhammā viññugarahitā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattantīti, atha tumhe, kālāmā, pajaheyyāthā”’ti, iti yaṁ taṁ vuttaṁ, idametaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ.

Please, Kālāmas, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think ‘The ascetic is our respected teacher.’ But when you know for yourselves: ‘These things are skillful, blameless, praised by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to welfare and happiness’, then you should acquire them and keep them.

Etha tumhe, kālāmā, mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā samaṇo no garūti. Yadā tumhe, kālāmā, attanāva jāneyyātha: ‘ime dhammā kusalā, ime dhammā anavajjā, ime dhammā viññuppasatthā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā hitāya sukhāya saṁvattantī’ti, atha tumhe, kālāmā, upasampajja vihareyyātha.

What do you think, Kālāmas? Does contentment come up in a person for their welfare or harm?”

Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, kālāmā, alobho purisassa ajjhattaṁ uppajjamāno uppajjati hitāya vā ahitāya vā”ti?

“Welfare, sir.”

“Hitāya, bhante”.

“An individual who is content, not overcome by greed, doesn’t kill living creatures, steal, commit adultery, lie, or encourage others to do the same. Is that for their lasting welfare and happiness?”

“Aluddho panāyaṁ, kālāmā, purisapuggalo lobhena anabhibhūto apariyādinnacitto neva pāṇaṁ hanati, na adinnaṁ ādiyati, na paradāraṁ gacchati, na musā bhaṇati, na parampi tathattāya samādapeti, yaṁ sa hoti dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāyā”ti.

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“What do you think, Kālāmas? Does love come up in a person for their welfare or harm? … Does understanding come up in a person for their welfare or harm? … Is that for their lasting welfare and happiness?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, kālāmā, adoso purisassa ajjhattaṁ uppajjamāno uppajjati …pe… amoho purisassa ajjhattaṁ uppajjamāno uppajjati …pe… hitāya sukhāyā”ti.

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“What do you think, Kālāmas, are these things skillful or unskillful?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, kālāmā, ime dhammā kusalā vā akusalā vā”ti?

“Skillful, sir.”

“Kusalā, bhante”.

“Blameworthy or blameless?”

“Sāvajjā vā anavajjā vā”ti?

“Blameless, sir.”

“Anavajjā, bhante”.

“Criticized or praised by sensible people?”

“Viññugarahitā vā viññuppasatthā vā”ti?

“Praised by sensible people, sir.”

“Viññuppasatthā, bhante”.

“When you undertake them, do they lead to welfare and happiness, or not? Or how do you see this?”

“Samattā samādinnā hitāya sukhāya saṁvattanti no vā? Kathaṁ vā ettha hotī”ti?

“When you undertake them, they lead to welfare and happiness. That’s how we see it.”

“Samattā, bhante, samādinnā hitāya sukhāya saṁvattanti. Evaṁ no ettha hotī”ti.

“So, Kālāmas, when I said: ‘Please, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think “The ascetic is our respected teacher.” But when you know for yourselves:

“Iti kho, kālāmā, yaṁ taṁ avocumhā: ‘etha tumhe, kālāmā. Mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā samaṇo no garūti. Yadā tumhe, kālāmā, attanāva jāneyyātha—

“These things are skillful, blameless, praised by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to welfare and happiness”, then you should acquire them and keep them.’ That’s what I said, and this is why I said it.

ime dhammā kusalā, ime dhammā anavajjā, ime dhammā viññuppasatthā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā hitāya sukhāya saṁvattantīti, atha tumhe, kālāmā, upasampajja vihareyyāthā’ti, iti yaṁ taṁ vuttaṁ idametaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ.

Then that noble disciple is rid of desire, rid of ill will, unconfused, aware, and mindful. They meditate spreading a heart full of love to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of love to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will.

Sa kho so, kālāmā, ariyasāvako evaṁ vigatābhijjho vigatabyāpādo asammūḷho sampajāno patissato mettāsahagatena cetasā ekaṁ disaṁ pharitvā viharati, tathā dutiyaṁ, tathā tatiyaṁ, tathā catutthaṁ, iti uddhamadho tiriyaṁ sabbadhi sabbattatāya sabbāvantaṁ lokaṁ mettāsahagatena cetasā vipulena mahaggatena appamāṇena averena abyāpajjhena pharitvā viharati.

They meditate spreading a heart full of compassion to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of compassion to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will.

Karuṇāsahagatena cetasā …pe…

They meditate spreading a heart full of rejoicing to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of rejoicing to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will.

muditāsahagatena cetasā …pe…

They meditate spreading a heart full of equanimity to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of equanimity to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will.

upekkhāsahagatena cetasā ekaṁ disaṁ pharitvā viharati, tathā dutiyaṁ, tathā tatiyaṁ, tathā catutthaṁ, iti uddhamadho tiriyaṁ sabbadhi sabbattatāya sabbāvantaṁ lokaṁ upekkhāsahagatena cetasā vipulena mahaggatena appamāṇena averena abyāpajjhena pharitvā viharati.

When that noble disciple has a mind that’s free of enmity and ill will, uncorrupted and purified, they’ve won four consolations in this very life. ‘If it turns out there is another world, and good and bad deeds have a result, then—when the body breaks up, after death—I’ll be reborn in a good place, a heavenly realm.’ This is the first consolation they’ve won.

Sa kho so, kālāmā, ariyasāvako evaṁ averacitto evaṁ abyāpajjhacitto evaṁ asaṅkiliṭṭhacitto evaṁ visuddhacitto. Tassa diṭṭheva dhamme cattāro assāsā adhigatā honti. ‘Sace kho pana atthi paro loko, atthi sukatadukkaṭānaṁ kammānaṁ phalaṁ vipāko, athāhaṁ kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā sugatiṁ saggaṁ lokaṁ upapajjissāmī’ti, ayamassa paṭhamo assāso adhigato hoti.

‘If it turns out there is no other world, and good and bad deeds don’t have a result, then in this very life I’ll keep myself free of enmity and ill will, untroubled and happy.’ This is the second consolation they’ve won.

‘Sace kho pana natthi paro loko, natthi sukatadukkaṭānaṁ kammānaṁ phalaṁ vipāko, athāhaṁ diṭṭheva dhamme averaṁ abyāpajjhaṁ anīghaṁ sukhiṁ attānaṁ pariharāmī’ti, ayamassa dutiyo assāso adhigato hoti.

‘If it turns out that bad things happen to people who do bad things, then since I have no bad intentions, and since I’m not doing anything bad, how can suffering touch me?’ This is the third consolation they’ve won.

‘Sace kho pana karoto karīyati pāpaṁ, na kho panāhaṁ kassaci pāpaṁ cetemi. Akarontaṁ kho pana maṁ pāpakammaṁ kuto dukkhaṁ phusissatī’ti, ayamassa tatiyo assāso adhigato hoti.

‘If it turns out that bad things don’t happen to people who do bad things, then I still see myself pure on both sides.’ This is the fourth consolation they’ve won.

‘Sace kho pana karoto na karīyati pāpaṁ, athāhaṁ ubhayeneva visuddhaṁ attānaṁ samanupassāmī’ti, ayamassa catuttho assāso adhigato hoti.

When that noble disciple has a mind that’s free of enmity and ill will, uncorrupted and purified, they’ve won these four consolations in this very life.”

Sa kho so, kālāmā, ariyasāvako evaṁ averacitto evaṁ abyāpajjhacitto evaṁ asaṅkiliṭṭhacitto evaṁ visuddhacitto. Tassa diṭṭheva dhamme ime cattāro assāsā adhigatā hontī”ti.

“That’s so true, Blessed One! That’s so true, Holy One! When that noble disciple has a mind that’s free of enmity and ill will, uncorrupted and purified, they’ve won these four consolations in this very life. …

“Evametaṁ, bhagavā, evametaṁ, sugata. Sa kho so, bhante, ariyasāvako evaṁ averacitto evaṁ abyāpajjhacitto evaṁ asaṅkiliṭṭhacitto evaṁ visuddhacitto. Tassa diṭṭheva dhamme cattāro assāsā adhigatā honti. ‘Sace kho pana atthi paro loko, atthi sukatadukkaṭānaṁ kammānaṁ phalaṁ vipāko, athāhaṁ kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā sugatiṁ saggaṁ lokaṁ upapajjissāmī’ti, ayamassa paṭhamo assāso adhigato hoti.

Excellent, sir! Excellent! … We go for refuge to the Buddha, to the teaching, and to the mendicant Saṅgha. From this day forth, may the Buddha remember us as lay followers who have gone for refuge for life.”

Abhikkantaṁ, bhante …pe… ete mayaṁ, bhante, bhagavantaṁ saraṇaṁ gacchāma dhammañca bhikkhusaṅghañca. Upāsake no, bhante, bhagavā dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupete saraṇaṁ gate”ti.

AN 3.66 · With Sāḷha and His Friend

AN 3.66 · Sāḷhasutta

So I have heard. Now at that time Venerable Nandaka was staying near Sāvatthī in the stilt longhouse of Migāra’s mother in the Eastern Monastery. Then Sāḷha, Migāra’s grandson, and Rohaṇa, Pekhuṇiya’s grandson went up to Venerable Nandaka, bowed, and sat down to one side. Then Venerable Nandaka said to Sāḷha:

Evaṁ me sutaṁ— ekaṁ samayaṁ āyasmā nandako sāvatthiyaṁ viharati pubbārāme migāramātupāsāde. Atha kho sāḷho ca migāranattā sāṇo ca sekhuniyanattā yenāyasmā nandako tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmantaṁ nandakaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho sāḷhaṁ migāranattāraṁ āyasmā nandako etadavoca:

“Please, Sāḷha and friend, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think ‘The ascetic is our respected teacher.’ But when you know for yourselves: ‘These things are unskillful, blameworthy, criticized by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering’, then you should give them up.

“Etha tumhe, sāḷhā, mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā samaṇo no garūti. Yadā tumhe, sāḷhā, attanāva jāneyyātha ‘ime dhammā akusalā, ime dhammā sāvajjā, ime dhammā viññugarahitā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattantī’ti, atha tumhe, sāḷhā, pajaheyyātha.

What do you think, Sāḷha? Is greed real?”

Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, sāḷhā, atthi lobho”ti?

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“‘Covetousness’ is what I mean by this. A person who is greedy and covetous kills living creatures, steals, commits adultery, lies, and encourages others to do the same. Is that for their lasting harm and suffering?”

“Abhijjhāti kho ahaṁ, sāḷhā, etamatthaṁ vadāmi. Luddho kho ayaṁ, sāḷhā, abhijjhālu pāṇampi hanati, adinnampi ādiyati, paradārampi gacchati, musāpi bhaṇati, parampi tathattāya samādapeti, yaṁ sa hoti dīgharattaṁ ahitāya dukkhāyā”ti.

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“What do you think, Sāḷha? Is hate real?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, sāḷhā, atthi doso”ti?

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“‘Malice’ is what I mean by this. A hateful and malicious person kills living creatures, steals, commits adultery, lies, and encourages others to do the same. Is that for their lasting harm and suffering?”

“Byāpādoti kho ahaṁ, sāḷhā, etamatthaṁ vadāmi. Duṭṭho kho ayaṁ, sāḷhā, byāpannacitto pāṇampi hanati, adinnampi ādiyati, paradārampi gacchati, musāpi bhaṇati, parampi tathattāya samādapeti, yaṁ sa hoti dīgharattaṁ ahitāya dukkhāyā”ti.

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“What do you think, Sāḷha? Is delusion real?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, sāḷhā, atthi moho”ti?

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“‘Ignorance’ is what I mean by this. A person who is deluded and ignorant kills living creatures, steals, commits adultery, lies, and encourages others to do the same. Is that for their lasting harm and suffering?”

“Avijjāti kho ahaṁ, sāḷhā, etamatthaṁ vadāmi. Mūḷho kho ayaṁ, sāḷhā, avijjāgato pāṇampi hanati, adinnampi ādiyati, paradārampi gacchati, musāpi bhaṇati, parampi tathattāya samādapeti, yaṁ sa hoti dīgharattaṁ ahitāya dukkhāyā”ti.

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“What do you think, Sāḷha, are these things skillful or unskillful?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, sāḷhā, ime dhammā kusalā vā akusalā vā”ti?

“Unskillful, sir.”

“Akusalā, bhante”.

“Blameworthy or blameless?”

“Sāvajjā vā anavajjā vā”ti?

“Blameworthy, sir.”

“Sāvajjā, bhante”.

“Criticized or praised by sensible people?”

“Viññugarahitā vā viññuppasatthā vā”ti?

“Criticized by sensible people, sir.”

“Viññugarahitā, bhante”.

“When you undertake them, do they lead to harm and suffering, or not? Or how do you see this?”

“Samattā samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattanti, no vā? Kathaṁ vā ettha hotī”ti?

“When you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering. That’s how we see it.”

“Samattā, bhante, samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattantīti. Evaṁ no ettha hotī”ti.

“So, Sāḷha and friend, when I said: ‘Please, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think “The ascetic is our respected teacher.” But when you know for yourselves: “These things are unskillful, blameworthy, criticized by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to harm and suffering”, then you should give them up.’ That’s what I said, and this is why I said it.

“Iti kho, sāḷhā, yaṁ taṁ avocumhā: ‘etha tumhe, sāḷhā, mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā samaṇo no garūti. Yadā tumhe, sāḷhā, attanāva jāneyyātha— ime dhammā akusalā, ime dhammā sāvajjā, ime dhammā viññugarahitā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattantīti, atha tumhe, sāḷhā, pajaheyyāthā’ti, iti yaṁ taṁ vuttaṁ idametaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ.

Please, Sāḷha and friend, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think ‘The ascetic is our respected teacher.’ But when you know for yourselves: ‘These things are skillful, blameless, praised by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to welfare and happiness’, then you should acquire them and keep them.

Etha tumhe, sāḷhā, mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā samaṇo no garūti. Yadā tumhe, sāḷhā, attanāva jāneyyātha: ‘ime dhammā kusalā, ime dhammā anavajjā, ime dhammā viññuppasatthā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā hitāya sukhāya saṁvattantī’ti, atha tumhe, sāḷhā, upasampajja vihareyyātha.

What do you think? Is contentment real?”

Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, sāḷhā, atthi alobho”ti?

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“‘Satisfaction’ is what I mean by this. A person who is content and satisfied doesn’t kill living creatures, steal, commit adultery, lie, or encourage others to do the same. Is that for their lasting welfare and happiness?”

“Anabhijjhāti kho ahaṁ, sāḷhā, etamatthaṁ vadāmi. Aluddho kho ayaṁ, sāḷhā, anabhijjhālu neva pāṇaṁ hanati, na adinnaṁ ādiyati, na paradāraṁ gacchati, na musā bhaṇati, parampi na tathattāya samādapeti, yaṁ sa hoti dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāyā”ti.

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“What do you think? Is love real?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, sāḷhā, atthi adoso”ti?

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“‘Kindness’ is what I mean by this. A loving and kind-hearted person doesn’t kill living creatures, steal, commit adultery, lie, or encourage others to do the same. Is that for their lasting welfare and happiness?”

“Abyāpādoti kho ahaṁ, sāḷhā, etamatthaṁ vadāmi. Aduṭṭho kho ayaṁ, sāḷhā, abyāpannacitto neva pāṇaṁ hanati, na adinnaṁ ādiyati, na paradāraṁ gacchati, na musā bhaṇati, parampi na tathattāya samādapeti, yaṁ sa hoti dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāyā”ti.

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“What do you think, Sāḷha? Is understanding real?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, sāḷhā, atthi amoho”ti?

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“‘Knowledge’ is what I mean by this. A person who understands and knows doesn’t kill living creatures, steal, commit adultery, lie, or encourage others to do the same. Is that for their lasting welfare and happiness?”

“Vijjāti kho ahaṁ, sāḷhā, etamatthaṁ vadāmi. Amūḷho kho ayaṁ, sāḷhā, vijjāgato neva pāṇaṁ hanati, na adinnaṁ ādiyati, na paradāraṁ gacchati, na musā bhaṇati, parampi na tathattāya samādapeti, yaṁ sa hoti dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāyā”ti.

“Yes, sir.”

“Evaṁ, bhante”.

“What do you think, Sāḷha, are these things skillful or unskillful?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññatha, sāḷhā, ime dhammā kusalā vā akusalā vā”ti?

“Skillful, sir.”

“Kusalā, bhante”.

“Blameworthy or blameless?”

“Sāvajjā vā anavajjā vā”ti?

“Blameless, sir.”

“Anavajjā, bhante”.

“Criticized or praised by sensible people?”

“Viññugarahitā vā viññuppasatthā vā”ti?

“Praised by sensible people, sir.”

“Viññuppasatthā, bhante”.

“When you undertake them, do they lead to welfare and happiness, or not? Or how do you see this?”

“Samattā samādinnā hitāya sukhāya saṁvattanti, no vā? Kathaṁ vā ettha hotī”ti?

“When you undertake them, they lead to welfare and happiness. That’s how we see it.”

“Samattā, bhante, samādinnā hitāya sukhāya saṁvattantīti. Evaṁ no ettha hotī”ti.

“So, Sāḷha and friend, when I said: ‘Please, don’t go by oral transmission, don’t go by lineage, don’t go by testament, don’t go by canonical authority, don’t rely on logic, don’t rely on inference, don’t go by reasoned train of thought, don’t go by the acceptance of a view after deliberation, don’t go by the appearance of competence, and don’t think “The ascetic is our respected teacher.” But when you know for yourselves:

“Iti kho, sāḷhā, yaṁ taṁ avocumhā: ‘etha tumhe, sāḷhā, mā anussavena, mā paramparāya, mā itikirāya, mā piṭakasampadānena, mā takkahetu, mā nayahetu, mā ākāraparivitakkena, mā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā, mā bhabbarūpatāya, mā samaṇo no garūti. Yadā tumhe, sāḷhā, attanāva jāneyyātha—

“These things are skillful, blameless, praised by sensible people, and when you undertake them, they lead to welfare and happiness”, then you should acquire them and keep them.’ That’s what I said, and this is why I said it.

ime dhammā kusalā, ime dhammā anavajjā, ime dhammā viññuppasatthā, ime dhammā samattā samādinnā dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāya saṁvattantīti, atha tumhe, sāḷhā, upasampajja vihareyyāthā’ti, iti yaṁ taṁ vuttaṁ idametaṁ paṭicca vuttaṁ.

Then that noble disciple is rid of desire, rid of ill will, unconfused, aware, and mindful. They meditate spreading a heart full of love … compassion … rejoicing … equanimity to one direction, and to the second, and to the third, and to the fourth. In the same way above, below, across, everywhere, all around, they spread a heart full of equanimity to the whole world—abundant, expansive, limitless, free of enmity and ill will.

Sa kho so, sāḷhā, ariyasāvako evaṁ vigatābhijjho vigatabyāpādo asammūḷho sampajāno patissato mettāsahagatena cetasā …pe… karuṇā … muditā … upekkhāsahagatena cetasā ekaṁ disaṁ pharitvā viharati, tathā dutiyaṁ, tathā tatiyaṁ, tathā catutthaṁ, iti uddhamadho tiriyaṁ sabbadhi sabbattatāya sabbāvantaṁ lokaṁ upekkhāsahagatena cetasā vipulena mahaggatena appamāṇena averena abyāpajjhena pharitvā viharati.

They understand: ‘There is this, there is what is worse than this, there is what is better than this, and there is an escape beyond the scope of perception.’ Knowing and seeing like this, their mind is freed from the defilements of sensuality, desire to be reborn, and ignorance. When they’re freed, they know they’re freed.

So evaṁ pajānāti: ‘atthi idaṁ, atthi hīnaṁ, atthi paṇītaṁ, atthi imassa saññāgatassa uttari nissaraṇan’ti. Tassa evaṁ jānato evaṁ passato kāmāsavāpi cittaṁ vimuccati, bhavāsavāpi cittaṁ vimuccati, avijjāsavāpi cittaṁ vimuccati; vimuttasmiṁ vimuttamiti ñāṇaṁ hoti.

They understand: ‘Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is nothing further for this place.’

‘Khīṇā jāti, vusitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ, kataṁ karaṇīyaṁ, nāparaṁ itthattāyā’ti pajānāti.

They understand: ‘Formerly there was greed, which was unskillful. Now there is none, so that’s skillful. Formerly there was hate, which was unskillful. Now there is none, so that’s skillful. Formerly there was delusion, which was unskillful. Now there is none, so that’s skillful.’ So they live without wishes in this very life, quenched, cooled, experiencing bliss, with self become divine.”

So evaṁ pajānāti: ‘ahu pubbe lobho, tadahu akusalaṁ, so etarahi natthi, iccetaṁ kusalaṁ; ahu pubbe doso …pe… ahu pubbe moho, tadahu akusalaṁ, so etarahi natthi, iccetaṁ kusalan’ti. So diṭṭheva dhamme nicchāto nibbuto sītibhūto sukhappaṭisaṁvedī brahmabhūtena attanā viharatī”ti.

AN 3.67 · Topics of Discussion

AN 3.67 · Kathāvatthusutta

“There are, mendicants, these three topics of discussion. What three? You might discuss the past: ‘That is how it was in the past.’ You might discuss the future: ‘That is how it will be in the future.’ Or you might discuss the present: ‘This is how it is at present.’

“Tīṇimāni, bhikkhave, kathāvatthūni. Katamāni tīṇi? Atītaṁ vā, bhikkhave, addhānaṁ ārabbha kathaṁ katheyya: ‘evaṁ ahosi atītamaddhānan’ti. Anāgataṁ vā, bhikkhave, addhānaṁ ārabbha kathaṁ katheyya: ‘evaṁ bhavissati anāgatamaddhānan’ti. Etarahi vā, bhikkhave, paccuppannaṁ addhānaṁ ārabbha kathaṁ katheyya: ‘evaṁ hoti etarahi paccuppannamaddhānan’ti.

You can know whether or not an individual is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion. When an individual is asked a question, if it needs to be answered categorically and they don’t answer it categorically; or if it needs analysis and they answer without analyzing it; or if it needs a counter-question and they answer without a counter-question; or if it should be set aside and they don’t set it aside, then that individual is not competent to hold a discussion. When an individual is asked a question, if it needs to be answered categorically and they answer it categorically; or if it needs analysis and they answer after analyzing it; or if it needs a counter-question and they answer with a counter-question; or if it should be set aside and they set it aside, then that individual is competent to hold a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti. Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ekaṁsabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ na ekaṁsena byākaroti, vibhajjabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ na vibhajja byākaroti, paṭipucchābyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ na paṭipucchā byākaroti, ṭhapanīyaṁ pañhaṁ na ṭhapeti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti. Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ekaṁsabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ ekaṁsena byākaroti, vibhajjabyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ vibhajja byākaroti, paṭipucchābyākaraṇīyaṁ pañhaṁ paṭipucchā byākaroti, ṭhapanīyaṁ pañhaṁ ṭhapeti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.

You can know whether or not an individual is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion. When an individual is asked a question, if they’re not consistent about what their position is and what it isn’t; about what they propose; about speaking from what they know; and about the appropriate procedure, then that individual is not competent to hold a discussion. When an individual is asked a question, if they are consistent about what their position is and what it isn’t; about what they propose; about speaking from what they know; and about the appropriate procedure, then that individual is competent to hold a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti. Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ṭhānāṭhāne na saṇṭhāti parikappe na saṇṭhāti aññātavāde na saṇṭhāti paṭipadāya na saṇṭhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti. Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno ṭhānāṭhāne saṇṭhāti parikappe saṇṭhāti aññātavāde saṇṭhāti paṭipadāya saṇṭhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.

You can know whether or not an individual is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion. When an individual is asked a question, if they dodge the issue; distract the discussion with irrelevant points; or display annoyance, hate, and bitterness, then that individual is not competent to hold a discussion. When an individual is asked a question, if they don’t dodge the issue; distract the discussion with irrelevant points; or display annoyance, hate, and bitterness, then that individual is competent to hold a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti. Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno aññenaññaṁ paṭicarati, bahiddhā kathaṁ apanāmeti, kopañca dosañca appaccayañca pātukaroti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti. Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno na aññenaññaṁ paṭicarati na bahiddhā kathaṁ apanāmeti, na kopañca dosañca appaccayañca pātukaroti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.

You can know whether or not an individual is competent to hold a discussion by seeing how they take part in a discussion. When an individual is asked a question, if they intimidate, crush, mock, or seize on trivial mistakes, then that individual is not competent to hold a discussion. When an individual is asked a question, if they don’t intimidate, crush, mock, or seize on trivial mistakes, then that individual is competent to hold a discussion.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā kaccho yadi vā akacchoti. Sacāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno abhiharati abhimaddati anupajagghati khalitaṁ gaṇhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo akaccho hoti. Sace panāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo pañhaṁ puṭṭho samāno nābhiharati nābhimaddati na anupajagghati na khalitaṁ gaṇhāti, evaṁ santāyaṁ, bhikkhave, puggalo kaccho hoti.

You can know whether or not an individual has what’s required by seeing how they take part in a discussion. If they actively listen they have what’s required; if they don’t actively listen they don’t have what’s required. Someone who has what’s required directly knows one thing, completely understands one thing, gives up one thing, and realizes one thing— and then they experience complete freedom. This is the purpose of discussion, consultation, sitting close, and listening well, that is, the liberation of the mind by not grasping.

Kathāsampayogena, bhikkhave, puggalo veditabbo yadi vā saupaniso yadi vā anupanisoti. Anohitasoto, bhikkhave, anupaniso hoti, ohitasoto saupaniso hoti. So saupaniso samāno abhijānāti ekaṁ dhammaṁ, parijānāti ekaṁ dhammaṁ, pajahati ekaṁ dhammaṁ, sacchikaroti ekaṁ dhammaṁ. So abhijānanto ekaṁ dhammaṁ, parijānanto ekaṁ dhammaṁ, pajahanto ekaṁ dhammaṁ, sacchikaronto ekaṁ dhammaṁ sammāvimuttiṁ phusati. Etadatthā, bhikkhave, kathā; etadatthā mantanā; etadatthā upanisā; etadatthaṁ sotāvadhānaṁ, yadidaṁ anupādā cittassa vimokkhoti.

Those who converse with hostility,too sure of themselves, arrogant,ignoble, attacking virtues,they look for flaws in each other.

Ye viruddhā sallapanti,viniviṭṭhā samussitā;Anariyaguṇamāsajja,aññoññavivaresino.

They rejoice together when their opponentspeaks poorly and makes a mistake,becoming confused and defeated—but the noble ones don’t discuss like this.

Dubbhāsitaṁ vikkhalitaṁ,sampamohaṁ parājayaṁ;Aññoññassābhinandanti,tadariyo kathanācare.

If an astute person wants to hold a discussionconnected with the teaching and its meaning—the kind of discussion that noble ones hold—then that attentive one should start the discussion,

Sace cassa kathākāmo,kālamaññāya paṇḍito;Dhammaṭṭhapaṭisaṁyuttā,yā ariyacaritā kathā.

knowing when the time is right,neither hostile nor arrogant.Not over-excited,contemptuous, or aggressive,

Taṁ kathaṁ kathaye dhīro,aviruddho anussito;Anunnatena manasā,apaḷāso asāhaso.

or with a mind full of jealousy,they’d speak from what they rightly know.They agree with what was well spoken,without criticizing what was poorly said.

Anusūyāyamāno so,sammadaññāya bhāsati;Subhāsitaṁ anumodeyya,dubbhaṭṭhe nāpasādaye.

They’d not persist in finding faults,nor seize on trivial mistakes,neither intimidating nor crushing the other,nor would they speak suggestively.

Upārambhaṁ na sikkheyya,khalitañca na gāhaye;Nābhihare nābhimadde,na vācaṁ payutaṁ bhaṇe.

Good people consultfor the sake of knowledge and clarity.That’s how the noble ones consult,this is a noble consultation.Knowing this, an intelligent personwould consult without arrogance.”

Aññātatthaṁ pasādatthaṁ,sataṁ ve hoti mantanā;Evaṁ kho ariyā mantenti,esā ariyāna mantanā;Etadaññāya medhāvī,na samusseyya mantaye”ti.