DN 9 · With Poṭṭhapāda
DN 9 · Poṭṭhapādasutta
1. On the Wanderer Poṭṭhapāda
1. Poṭṭhapādaparibbājakavatthu
So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.
Evaṁ me sutaṁ— ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme.
Now at that time the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda was residing together with three hundred wanderers in Mallikā’s single-halled monastery for philosophical debates, hedged by pale-moon ebony trees. Then the Buddha robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Sāvatthī for alms.
Tena kho pana samayena poṭṭhapādo paribbājako samayappavādake tindukācīre ekasālake mallikāya ārāme paṭivasati mahatiyā paribbājakaparisāya saddhiṁ tiṁsamattehi paribbājakasatehi. Atha kho bhagavā pubbaṇhasamayaṁ nivāsetvā pattacīvaramādāya sāvatthiṁ piṇḍāya pāvisi.
Then it occurred to him, “It’s too early to wander for alms in Sāvatthī. Why don’t I go to Mallikā’s monastery to visit the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda?” So that’s what he did.
Atha kho bhagavato etadahosi: “atippago kho tāva sāvatthiyaṁ piṇḍāya carituṁ. Yannūnāhaṁ yena samayappavādako tindukācīro ekasālako mallikāya ārāmo, yena poṭṭhapādo paribbājako tenupasaṅkameyyan”ti. Atha kho bhagavā yena samayappavādako tindukācīro ekasālako mallikāya ārāmo tenupasaṅkami.
Now at that time, Poṭṭhapāda was sitting together with a large assembly of wanderers making an uproar, a colossal racket. They engaged in all kinds of low talk, such as talk about kings, bandits, and chief ministers; talk about armies, threats, and wars; talk about food, drink, clothes, and beds; talk about garlands and fragrances; talk about family, vehicles, villages, towns, cities, and countries; talk about women and heroes; talk at the street market and the place for water pots; talk about the departed; motley talk; tales of land and sea; and talk about being reborn in this or that place.
Tena kho pana samayena poṭṭhapādo paribbājako mahatiyā paribbājakaparisāya saddhiṁ nisinno hoti unnādiniyā uccāsaddamahāsaddāya anekavihitaṁ tiracchānakathaṁ kathentiyā. Seyyathidaṁ—rājakathaṁ corakathaṁ mahāmattakathaṁ senākathaṁ bhayakathaṁ yuddhakathaṁ annakathaṁ pānakathaṁ vatthakathaṁ sayanakathaṁ mālākathaṁ gandhakathaṁ ñātikathaṁ yānakathaṁ gāmakathaṁ nigamakathaṁ nagarakathaṁ janapadakathaṁ itthikathaṁ sūrakathaṁ visikhākathaṁ kumbhaṭṭhānakathaṁ pubbapetakathaṁ nānattakathaṁ lokakkhāyikaṁ samuddakkhāyikaṁ itibhavābhavakathaṁ iti vā.
Poṭṭhapāda saw the Buddha coming off in the distance, and hushed his own assembly, “Be quiet, good fellows, don’t make a sound. Here comes the ascetic Gotama. The venerable likes quiet and praises quiet. Hopefully if he sees that our assembly is quiet he’ll see fit to approach.” Then those wanderers fell silent.
Addasā kho poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ dūratova āgacchantaṁ; disvāna sakaṁ parisaṁ saṇṭhapesi: “appasaddā bhonto hontu, mā bhonto saddamakattha. Ayaṁ samaṇo gotamo āgacchati. Appasaddakāmo kho so āyasmā appasaddassa vaṇṇavādī. Appeva nāma appasaddaṁ parisaṁ viditvā upasaṅkamitabbaṁ maññeyyā”ti. Evaṁ vutte, te paribbājakā tuṇhī ahesuṁ.
Then the Buddha approached Poṭṭhapāda, who said to him, “Let the Blessed One come, sir! Welcome to the Blessed One, sir! It’s been a long time since you took the opportunity to come here. Please, sir, sit down, here, a seat is ready.”
Atha kho bhagavā yena poṭṭhapādo paribbājako tenupasaṅkami. Atha kho poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “etu kho, bhante, bhagavā. Svāgataṁ, bhante, bhagavato. Cirassaṁ kho, bhante, bhagavā imaṁ pariyāyamakāsi, yadidaṁ idhāgamanāya. Nisīdatu, bhante, bhagavā, idaṁ āsanaṁ paññattan”ti.
The Buddha sat down on the seat spread out, while Poṭṭhapāda took a low seat and sat to one side. The Buddha said to him, “Poṭṭhapāda, what were you sitting talking about just now? What conversation was left unfinished?”
Nisīdi bhagavā paññatte āsane. Poṭṭhapādopi kho paribbājako aññataraṁ nīcaṁ āsanaṁ gahetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho poṭṭhapādaṁ paribbājakaṁ bhagavā etadavoca: “kāya nuttha, poṭṭhapāda, etarahi kathāya sannisinnā, kā ca pana vo antarākathā vippakatā”ti?
1.1. On the Cessation of Perception
1.1. Abhisaññānirodhakathā
When he said this, the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda said to the Buddha, “Sir, leave aside what we were sitting talking about just now. It won’t be hard for you to hear about that later.
Evaṁ vutte, poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “tiṭṭhatesā, bhante, kathā, yāya mayaṁ etarahi kathāya sannisinnā. Nesā, bhante, kathā bhagavato dullabhā bhavissati pacchāpi savanāya.
Sir, a few days ago several ascetics and brahmins who follow various other religions were sitting together at the debating hall, and a discussion about the cessation of perception came up among them: ‘How does the cessation of perception happen?’
Purimāni, bhante, divasāni purimatarāni, nānātitthiyānaṁ samaṇabrāhmaṇānaṁ kotūhalasālāya sannisinnānaṁ sannipatitānaṁ abhisaññānirodhe kathā udapādi: ‘kathaṁ nu kho, bho, abhisaññānirodho hotī’ti?
Some of them said: ‘A person’s perceptions arise and cease without cause or reason. When they arise, you become percipient. When they cease, you become non-percipient.’ That’s how some describe the cessation of perception.
Tatrekacce evamāhaṁsu: ‘ahetū appaccayā purisassa saññā uppajjantipi nirujjhantipi. Yasmiṁ samaye uppajjanti, saññī tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Yasmiṁ samaye nirujjhanti, asaññī tasmiṁ samaye hotī’ti. Ittheke abhisaññānirodhaṁ paññapenti.
But someone else says: ‘That’s not how it is, good fellows! Perception is a person’s self, which enters and departs. When it enters, you become percipient. When it departs, you become non-percipient.’ That’s how some describe the cessation of perception.
Tamañño evamāha: ‘na kho pana metaṁ, bho, evaṁ bhavissati. Saññā hi, bho, purisassa attā. Sā ca kho upetipi apetipi. Yasmiṁ samaye upeti, saññī tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Yasmiṁ samaye apeti, asaññī tasmiṁ samaye hotī’ti. Ittheke abhisaññānirodhaṁ paññapenti.
But someone else says: ‘That’s not how it is, good fellows! There are ascetics and brahmins of great power and might. They insert and extract a person’s perception. When they insert it, you become percipient. When they extract it, you become non-percipient.’ That’s how some describe the cessation of perception.
Tamañño evamāha: ‘na kho pana metaṁ, bho, evaṁ bhavissati. Santi hi, bho, samaṇabrāhmaṇā mahiddhikā mahānubhāvā. Te imassa purisassa saññaṁ upakaḍḍhantipi apakaḍḍhantipi. Yasmiṁ samaye upakaḍḍhanti, saññī tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Yasmiṁ samaye apakaḍḍhanti, asaññī tasmiṁ samaye hotī’ti. Ittheke abhisaññānirodhaṁ paññapenti.
But someone else says: ‘That’s not how it is, good fellows! There are deities of great power and might. They insert and extract a person’s perception. When they insert it, you become percipient. When they extract it, you become non-percipient.’ That’s how some describe the cessation of perception.
Tamañño evamāha: ‘na kho pana metaṁ, bho, evaṁ bhavissati. Santi hi, bho, devatā mahiddhikā mahānubhāvā. Tā imassa purisassa saññaṁ upakaḍḍhantipi apakaḍḍhantipi. Yasmiṁ samaye upakaḍḍhanti, saññī tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Yasmiṁ samaye apakaḍḍhanti, asaññī tasmiṁ samaye hotī’ti. Ittheke abhisaññānirodhaṁ paññapenti.
That reminded me of the Buddha: ‘Surely it must be the Blessed One, the Holy One who is so very skilled in such matters.’ The Buddha is skilled and well-versed concerning the cessation of perception. How does the cessation of perception happen?”
Tassa mayhaṁ, bhante, bhagavantaṁyeva ārabbha sati udapādi: ‘aho nūna bhagavā, aho nūna sugato, yo imesaṁ dhammānaṁ sukusalo’ti. Bhagavā, bhante, kusalo, bhagavā pakataññū abhisaññānirodhassa. Kathaṁ nu kho, bhante, abhisaññānirodho hotī”ti?
1.2. Perception Arises With a Cause
1.2. Sahetukasaññuppādanirodhakathā
“Regarding this, Poṭṭhapāda, those ascetics and brahmins who say that a person’s perceptions arise and cease without cause or reason are wrong from the start. Why is that? Because a person’s perceptions arise and cease with cause and reason. With training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease.
“Tatra, poṭṭhapāda, ye te samaṇabrāhmaṇā evamāhaṁsu: ‘ahetū appaccayā purisassa saññā uppajjantipi nirujjhantipī’ti, āditova tesaṁ aparaddhaṁ. Taṁ kissa hetu? Sahetū hi, poṭṭhapāda, sappaccayā purisassa saññā uppajjantipi nirujjhantipi. Sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati.
And what is that training?” said the Buddha.
Kā ca sikkhā”ti? Bhagavā avoca.
“It’s when a Realized One arises in the world, perfected, a fully awakened Buddha … That’s how a mendicant is accomplished in ethics. …
“Idha, poṭṭhapāda, tathāgato loke uppajjati arahaṁ, sammāsambuddho …pe… Evaṁ kho, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sīlasampanno hoti …pe…
Seeing that the hindrances have been given up in them, joy springs up. Being joyful, rapture springs up. When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil. When the body is tranquil, they feel bliss. And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed.
tassime pañcanīvaraṇe pahīne attani samanupassato pāmojjaṁ jāyati, pamuditassa pīti jāyati, pītimanassa kāyo passambhati, passaddhakāyo sukhaṁ vedeti, sukhino cittaṁ samādhiyati.
Quite secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unskillful qualities, they enter and remain in the first absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of seclusion, while placing the mind and keeping it connected. The sensual perception that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the rapture and bliss born of seclusion. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.
So vivicceva kāmehi, vivicca akusalehi dhammehi, savitakkaṁ savicāraṁ vivekajaṁ pītisukhaṁ paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā kāmasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Vivekajapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, vivekajapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayaṁ sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.
“Furthermore, as the placing of the mind and keeping it connected are stilled, a mendicant enters and remains in the second absorption, which has the rapture and bliss born of immersion, with internal clarity and mind at one, without placing the mind and keeping it connected. The subtle and true perception of the rapture and bliss born of seclusion that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the rapture and bliss born of immersion. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.
“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu vitakkavicārānaṁ vūpasamā ajjhattaṁ sampasādanaṁ cetaso ekodibhāvaṁ avitakkaṁ avicāraṁ samādhijaṁ pītisukhaṁ dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā vivekajapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Samādhijapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, samādhijapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.
“Furthermore, with the fading away of rapture, a mendicant enters and remains in the third absorption, where they meditate with equanimity, mindful and aware, experiencing for themselves the bliss of which the noble ones declare, ‘Equanimous and mindful, one meditates in bliss.’ The subtle and true perception of the rapture and bliss born of immersion that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of bliss with equanimity. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.
“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu pītiyā ca virāgā upekkhako ca viharati sato ca sampajāno, sukhañca kāyena paṭisaṁvedeti, yaṁ taṁ ariyā ācikkhanti: ‘upekkhako satimā sukhavihārī’ti, tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā samādhijapītisukhasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Upekkhāsukhasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, upekkhāsukhasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.
“Furthermore, with the giving up of pleasure and pain and the disappearance of former happiness and sadness, a mendicant enters and remains in the fourth absorption, without pleasure or pain, with pure equanimity and mindfulness. The subtle and true perception of bliss with equanimity that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of neutral feeling. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.
“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sukhassa ca pahānā dukkhassa ca pahānā pubbeva somanassadomanassānaṁ atthaṅgamā adukkhamasukhaṁ upekkhāsatipārisuddhiṁ catutthaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā upekkhāsukhasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Adukkhamasukhasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, adukkhamasukhasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.
“Furthermore, a mendicant, going totally beyond perceptions of form, with the disappearance of perceptions of impingement, not focusing on perceptions of diversity, aware that ‘space is infinite’, enters and remains in the dimension of infinite space. The perception of luminous form that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the dimension of infinite space. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.
“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sabbaso rūpasaññānaṁ samatikkamā paṭighasaññānaṁ atthaṅgamā nānattasaññānaṁ amanasikārā ‘ananto ākāso’ti ākāsānañcāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā rūpasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Ākāsānañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, ākāsānañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.
“Furthermore, a mendicant, going totally beyond the dimension of infinite space, aware that ‘consciousness is infinite’, enters and remains in the dimension of infinite consciousness. The subtle and true perception of the dimension of infinite space that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the dimension of infinite consciousness. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.
“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sabbaso ākāsānañcāyatanaṁ samatikkamma ‘anantaṁ viññāṇan’ti viññāṇañcāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā ākāsānañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Viññāṇañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, viññāṇañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.
“Furthermore, a mendicant, going totally beyond the dimension of infinite consciousness, aware that ‘there is nothing at all’, enters and remains in the dimension of nothingness. The subtle and true perception of the dimension of infinite consciousness that they had previously ceases. At that time they have a subtle and true perception of the dimension of nothingness. That’s how, with training, certain perceptions arise and certain perceptions cease. And this is that training,” said the Buddha.
“Puna caparaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu sabbaso viññāṇañcāyatanaṁ samatikkamma ‘natthi kiñcī’ti ākiñcaññāyatanaṁ upasampajja viharati. Tassa yā purimā viññāṇañcāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā, sā nirujjhati. Ākiñcaññāyatanasukhumasaccasaññā tasmiṁ samaye hoti, ākiñcaññāyatanasukhumasaccasaññīyeva tasmiṁ samaye hoti. Evampi sikkhā ekā saññā uppajjati, sikkhā ekā saññā nirujjhati. Ayampi sikkhā”ti bhagavā avoca.
“Poṭṭhapāda, from the time a mendicant here takes charge of their own perception, they proceed from one stage to the next, progressively reaching the peak of perception. Standing on the peak of perception they think, ‘Intentionality is bad for me, it’s better to be free of it. For if I were to intend and choose, these perceptions would cease in me, and other coarser perceptions would arise. Why don’t I neither make a choice nor form an intention?’ They neither make a choice nor form an intention. Those perceptions cease in them, and other coarser perceptions don’t arise. They touch cessation. And that, Poṭṭhapāda, is how the progressive cessation of perception is attained with awareness.
“Yato kho, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu idha sakasaññī hoti, so tato amutra tato amutra anupubbena saññaggaṁ phusati. Tassa saññagge ṭhitassa evaṁ hoti: ‘cetayamānassa me pāpiyo, acetayamānassa me seyyo. Ahañceva kho pana ceteyyaṁ, abhisaṅkhareyyaṁ, imā ca me saññā nirujjheyyuṁ, aññā ca oḷārikā saññā uppajjeyyuṁ; yannūnāhaṁ na ceva ceteyyaṁ na ca abhisaṅkhareyyan’ti. So na ceva ceteti, na ca abhisaṅkharoti. Tassa acetayato anabhisaṅkharoto tā ceva saññā nirujjhanti, aññā ca oḷārikā saññā na uppajjanti. So nirodhaṁ phusati. Evaṁ kho, poṭṭhapāda, anupubbābhisaññānirodhasampajānasamāpatti hoti.
What do you think, Poṭṭhapāda? Have you ever heard of this before?”
Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, poṭṭhapāda, api nu te ito pubbe evarūpā anupubbābhisaññānirodhasampajānasamāpatti sutapubbā”ti?
“No, sir. This is how I understand what the Buddha said: ‘From the time a mendicant here takes charge of their own perception, they proceed from one stage to the next, progressively reaching the peak of perception. Standing on the peak of perception they think, “Intentionality is bad for me, it’s better to be free of it. For if I were to intend and choose, these perceptions would cease in me, and other coarser perceptions would arise. Why don’t I neither make a choice nor form an intention?” Those perceptions cease in them, and other coarser perceptions don’t arise. They touch cessation. And that is how the progressive cessation of perception is attained with awareness.’”
“No hetaṁ, bhante. Evaṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, bhagavato bhāsitaṁ ājānāmi: ‘yato kho, poṭṭhapāda, bhikkhu idha sakasaññī hoti, so tato amutra tato amutra anupubbena saññaggaṁ phusati, tassa saññagge ṭhitassa evaṁ hoti: “cetayamānassa me pāpiyo, acetayamānassa me seyyo. Ahañceva kho pana ceteyyaṁ abhisaṅkhareyyaṁ, imā ca me saññā nirujjheyyuṁ, aññā ca oḷārikā saññā uppajjeyyuṁ; yannūnāhaṁ na ceva ceteyyaṁ, na ca abhisaṅkhareyyan”ti. So na ceva ceteti, na cābhisaṅkharoti, tassa acetayato anabhisaṅkharoto tā ceva saññā nirujjhanti, aññā ca oḷārikā saññā na uppajjanti. So nirodhaṁ phusati. Evaṁ kho, poṭṭhapāda, anupubbābhisaññānirodhasampajānasamāpatti hotī’”ti.
“That’s right, Poṭṭhapāda.”
“Evaṁ, poṭṭhapādā”ti.
“Does the Buddha describe just one peak of perception, or many?”
“Ekaññeva nu kho, bhante, bhagavā saññaggaṁ paññapeti, udāhu puthūpi saññagge paññapetī”ti?
“I describe the peak of perception as both one and many.”
“Ekampi kho ahaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, saññaggaṁ paññapemi, puthūpi saññagge paññapemī”ti.
“But sir, how do you describe it as one peak and as many?”
“Yathā kathaṁ pana, bhante, bhagavā ekampi saññaggaṁ paññapeti, puthūpi saññagge paññapetī”ti?
“I describe the peak of perception according to the specific manner in which one touches cessation. That’s how I describe the peak of perception as both one and many.”
“Yathā yathā kho, poṭṭhapāda, nirodhaṁ phusati tathā tathāhaṁ saññaggaṁ paññapemi. Evaṁ kho ahaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, ekampi saññaggaṁ paññapemi, puthūpi saññagge paññapemī”ti.
“But sir, does perception arise first and knowledge afterwards? Or does knowledge arise first and perception afterwards? Or do they both arise at the same time?”
“Saññā nu kho, bhante, paṭhamaṁ uppajjati, pacchā ñāṇaṁ, udāhu ñāṇaṁ paṭhamaṁ uppajjati, pacchā saññā, udāhu saññā ca ñāṇañca apubbaṁ acarimaṁ uppajjantī”ti?
“Perception arises first and knowledge afterwards. The arising of perception leads to the arising of knowledge. They understand, ‘My knowledge arose from a specific condition.’ That is a way to understand how perception arises first and knowledge afterwards; that the arising of perception leads to the arising of knowledge.”
“Saññā kho, poṭṭhapāda, paṭhamaṁ uppajjati, pacchā ñāṇaṁ, saññuppādā ca pana ñāṇuppādo hoti. So evaṁ pajānāti: ‘idappaccayā kira me ñāṇaṁ udapādī’ti. Iminā kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ— yathā saññā paṭhamaṁ uppajjati, pacchā ñāṇaṁ, saññuppādā ca pana ñāṇuppādo hotī”ti.
1.3. Perception and the Self
1.3. Saññāattakathā
“Sir, is perception a person’s self, or are perception and self different things?”
“Saññā nu kho, bhante, purisassa attā, udāhu aññā saññā añño attā”ti?
“But Poṭṭhapāda, do you believe in a self?”
“Kaṁ pana tvaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, attānaṁ paccesī”ti?
“I believe in a solid self, sir, which is formed, made up of the four principal states, and consumes edible food.”
“Oḷārikaṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, attānaṁ paccemi rūpiṁ cātumahābhūtikaṁ kabaḷīkārāhārabhakkhan”ti.
“Suppose there was such a solid self, Poṭṭhapāda. In that case, perception would be one thing, the self another. Here is another way to understand how perception and self are different things. So long as that solid self remains, still some perceptions arise in a person and others cease. That is a way to understand how perception and self are different things.”
“Oḷāriko ca hi te, poṭṭhapāda, attā abhavissa rūpī cātumahābhūtiko kabaḷīkārāhārabhakkho. Evaṁ santaṁ kho te, poṭṭhapāda, aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā. Tadamināpetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā. Tiṭṭhateva sāyaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, oḷāriko attā rūpī cātumahābhūtiko kabaḷīkārāhārabhakkho, atha imassa purisassa aññā ca saññā uppajjanti, aññā ca saññā nirujjhanti. Iminā kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā”ti.
“Sir, I believe in a mind-made self which is whole in its major and minor limbs, not deficient in any faculty.”
“Manomayaṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, attānaṁ paccemi sabbaṅgapaccaṅgiṁ ahīnindriyan”ti.
“Suppose there was such a mind-made self, Poṭṭhapāda. In that case, perception would be one thing, the self another. Here is another way to understand how perception and self are different things. So long as that mind-made self remains, still some perceptions arise in a person and others cease. That too is a way to understand how perception and self are different things.”
“Manomayo ca hi te, poṭṭhapāda, attā abhavissa sabbaṅgapaccaṅgī ahīnindriyo, evaṁ santampi kho te, poṭṭhapāda, aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā. Tadamināpetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā. Tiṭṭhateva sāyaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, manomayo attā sabbaṅgapaccaṅgī ahīnindriyo, atha imassa purisassa aññā ca saññā uppajjanti, aññā ca saññā nirujjhanti. Imināpi kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā”ti.
“Sir, I believe in a formless self which is made of perception.”
“Arūpiṁ kho ahaṁ, bhante, attānaṁ paccemi saññāmayan”ti.
“Suppose there was such a formless self, Poṭṭhapāda. In that case, perception would be one thing, the self another. Here is another way to understand how perception and self are different things. So long as that formless self remains, still some perceptions arise in a person and others cease. That too is a way to understand how perception and self are different things.”
“Arūpī ca hi te, poṭṭhapāda, attā abhavissa saññāmayo, evaṁ santampi kho te, poṭṭhapāda, aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā. Tadamināpetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā. Tiṭṭhateva sāyaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, arūpī attā saññāmayo, atha imassa purisassa aññā ca saññā uppajjanti, aññā ca saññā nirujjhanti. Imināpi kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, pariyāyena veditabbaṁ yathā aññāva saññā bhavissati añño attā”ti.
“But, sir, am I able to know whether perception is a person’s self, or whether perception and self are different things?”
“Sakkā panetaṁ, bhante, mayā ñātuṁ: ‘saññā purisassa attā’ti vā ‘aññāva saññā añño attā’ti vā”ti?
“It’s hard for you to understand this, since you have a different view, creed, and belief, and another discipline and denomination.”
“Dujjānaṁ kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, tayā aññadiṭṭhikena aññakhantikena aññarucikena aññatrāyogena aññatrācariyakena: ‘saññā purisassa attā’ti vā, ‘aññāva saññā añño attāti’ vā”ti.
“Well, if that’s the case, sir, then what do you make of this: ‘The cosmos is eternal. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
“Sacetaṁ, bhante, mayā dujjānaṁ aññadiṭṭhikena aññakhantikena aññarucikena aññatrāyogena aññatrācariyakena: ‘saññā purisassa attā’ti vā, ‘aññāva saññā añño attā’ti vā; kiṁ pana, bhante, ‘sassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti?
“This has not been declared by me, Poṭṭhapāda.”
“Abyākataṁ kho etaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, mayā: ‘sassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti.
“Then what do you make of this: ‘The cosmos is not eternal. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
“Kiṁ pana, bhante, ‘asassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti?
“This too has not been declared by me.”
“Etampi kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā abyākataṁ: ‘asassato loko, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti.
“Then what do you make of this: ‘The cosmos is finite …’ … ‘The cosmos is infinite …’ … ‘The soul and the body are one and the same …’ … ‘The soul is one thing, the body another …’ … ‘A realized one still exists after death …’ … ‘A realized one no longer exists after death …’ … ‘A realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death …’ … ‘A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death. This is the only truth, anything else is futile’?”
“Kiṁ pana, bhante, ‘antavā loko …pe… ‘anantavā loko … ‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīraṁ … ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīraṁ … ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā … ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā … ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā … ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti?
“This too has not been declared by me.”
“Etampi kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā abyākataṁ: ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā, idameva saccaṁ moghamaññan’”ti.
“Why haven’t these things been declared by the Buddha?”
“Kasmā panetaṁ, bhante, bhagavatā abyākatan”ti?
“Because they’re not beneficial or relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They don’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That’s why I haven’t declared them.”
“Na hetaṁ, poṭṭhapāda, atthasaṁhitaṁ na dhammasaṁhitaṁ nādibrahmacariyakaṁ, na nibbidāya na virāgāya na nirodhāya na upasamāya na abhiññāya na sambodhāya na nibbānāya saṁvattati, tasmā etaṁ mayā abyākatan”ti.
“Then what has been declared by the Buddha?”
“Kiṁ pana, bhante, bhagavatā byākatan”ti?
“I have declared this: ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’.”
“Idaṁ dukkhanti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā byākataṁ. Ayaṁ dukkhasamudayoti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā byākataṁ. Ayaṁ dukkhanirodhoti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā byākataṁ. Ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadāti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā byākatan”ti.
“Why have these things been declared by the Buddha?”
“Kasmā panetaṁ, bhante, bhagavatā byākatan”ti?
“Because they are beneficial and relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That’s why I have declared them.”
“Etañhi, poṭṭhapāda, atthasaṁhitaṁ, etaṁ dhammasaṁhitaṁ, etaṁ ādibrahmacariyakaṁ, etaṁ nibbidāya virāgāya nirodhāya upasamāya abhiññāya sambodhāya nibbānāya saṁvattati; tasmā etaṁ mayā byākatan”ti.
“That’s so true, Blessed One! That’s so true, Holy One! Please, sir, go at your convenience.” Then the Buddha rose from his seat and left.
“Evametaṁ, bhagavā, evametaṁ, sugata. Yassadāni, bhante, bhagavā kālaṁ maññatī”ti. Atha kho bhagavā uṭṭhāyāsanā pakkāmi.
Soon after the Buddha left, those wanderers beset Poṭṭhapāda on all sides with sneering and jeering. “No matter what the ascetic Gotama says, Poṭṭhapāda agrees with him: ‘That’s so true, Blessed One! That’s so true, Holy One!’ We understand that the ascetic Gotama didn’t give any categorical teaching at all regarding whether the cosmos is eternal and so on.”
Atha kho te paribbājakā acirapakkantassa bhagavato poṭṭhapādaṁ paribbājakaṁ samantato vācā sannitodakena sañjhabbharimakaṁsu: “evameva panāyaṁ bhavaṁ poṭṭhapādo yaññadeva samaṇo gotamo bhāsati, taṁ tadevassa abbhanumodati: ‘evametaṁ, bhagavā, evametaṁ, sugatā’ti. Na kho pana mayaṁ kiñci samaṇassa gotamassa ekaṁsikaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāma: ‘sassato loko’ti vā, ‘asassato loko’ti vā, ‘antavā loko’ti vā, ‘anantavā loko’ti vā, ‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti vā, ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti vā, ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā”ti.
When they said this, Poṭṭhapāda said to them, “I too understand that the ascetic Gotama didn’t give any categorical teaching at all regarding whether the cosmos is eternal and so on. Nevertheless, the practice that he describes is true, real, and accurate. It is the regularity of natural principles, the surety of natural principles. So how on earth could a sensible person such as I not agree that what was well spoken by the ascetic Gotama was in fact well spoken?”
Evaṁ vutte, poṭṭhapādo paribbājako te paribbājake etadavoca: “ahampi kho, bho, na kiñci samaṇassa gotamassa ekaṁsikaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi: ‘sassato loko’ti vā, ‘asassato loko’ti vā …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā; api ca samaṇo gotamo bhūtaṁ tacchaṁ tathaṁ paṭipadaṁ paññapeti dhammaṭṭhitataṁ dhammaniyāmataṁ. Bhūtaṁ kho pana tacchaṁ tathaṁ paṭipadaṁ paññapentassa dhammaṭṭhitataṁ dhammaniyāmataṁ, kathañhi nāma mādiso viññū samaṇassa gotamassa subhāsitaṁ subhāsitato nābbhanumodeyyā”ti?
2. On Citta Hatthisāriputta
2. Cittahatthisāriputtapoṭṭhapādavatthu
Then after two or three days had passed, Citta Hatthisāriputta and Poṭṭhapāda went to the Buddha. Citta Hatthisāriputta bowed and sat down to one side. But the wanderer Poṭṭhapāda exchanged greetings with the Buddha, and when the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side. Poṭṭhapāda told the Buddha what had happened after he left. The Buddha said:
Atha kho dvīhatīhassa accayena citto ca hatthisāriputto poṭṭhapādo ca paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā citto hatthisāriputto bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Poṭṭhapādo pana paribbājako bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho poṭṭhapādo paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “tadā maṁ, bhante, te paribbājakā acirapakkantassa bhagavato samantato vācāsannitodakena sañjhabbharimakaṁsu: ‘evameva panāyaṁ bhavaṁ poṭṭhapādo yaññadeva samaṇo gotamo bhāsati, taṁ tadevassa abbhanumodati: “evametaṁ, bhagavā, evametaṁ, sugatā”ti. Na kho pana mayaṁ kiñci samaṇassa gotamassa ekaṁsikaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāma: “sassato loko”ti vā, “asassato loko”ti vā, “antavā loko”ti vā, “anantavā loko”ti vā, “taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran”ti vā, “aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran”ti vā, “hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā, “na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā, “hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā, “neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā’ti. Evaṁ vuttāhaṁ, bhante, te paribbājake etadavocaṁ: ‘ahampi kho, bho, na kiñci samaṇassa gotamassa ekaṁsikaṁ dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi: “sassato loko”ti vā, “asassato loko”ti vā …pe… “neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā”ti vā; api ca samaṇo gotamo bhūtaṁ tacchaṁ tathaṁ paṭipadaṁ paññapeti dhammaṭṭhitataṁ dhammaniyāmataṁ. Bhūtaṁ kho pana tacchaṁ tathaṁ paṭipadaṁ paññapentassa dhammaṭṭhitataṁ dhammaniyāmataṁ, kathañhi nāma mādiso viññū samaṇassa gotamassa subhāsitaṁ subhāsitato nābbhanumodeyyā’”ti?
“All those wanderers, Poṭṭhapāda, are blind and sightless. You are the only one whose eyes are clear. For I have taught and pointed out teachings that are categorical and also teachings that are not categorical.
“Sabbeva kho ete, poṭṭhapāda, paribbājakā andhā acakkhukā; tvaṁyeva nesaṁ eko cakkhumā. Ekaṁsikāpi hi kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā dhammā desitā paññattā; anekaṁsikāpi hi kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā dhammā desitā paññattā.
And what teachings have I taught and pointed out as not categorical? ‘The cosmos is eternal’ … ‘The cosmos is not eternal’ … ‘The cosmos is finite’ … ‘The cosmos is infinite’ … ‘The soul is the same thing as the body’ … ‘The soul is one thing, the body another’ … ‘A realized one still exists after death’ … ‘A realized one no longer exists after death’ … ‘A realized one both still exists and no longer exists after death’ … ‘A realized one neither still exists nor no longer exists after death.’
Katame ca te, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā? ‘Sassato loko’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto; ‘asassato loko’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto; ‘antavā loko’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda …pe… ‘anantavā loko’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda … ‘taṁ jīvaṁ taṁ sarīran’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda … ‘aññaṁ jīvaṁ aññaṁ sarīran’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda … ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda … na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda … ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda … ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto.
And why have I taught and pointed out such teachings as not categorical? Because those things aren’t beneficial or relevant to the fundamentals of the spiritual life. They don’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. That’s why I have taught and pointed out such teachings as not categorical.
Kasmā ca te, poṭṭhapāda, mayā anekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā? Na hete, poṭṭhapāda, atthasaṁhitā na dhammasaṁhitā na ādibrahmacariyakā na nibbidāya na virāgāya na nirodhāya na upasamāya na abhiññāya na sambodhāya na nibbānāya saṁvattanti. Tasmā te mayā anekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā.
2.1. Teachings That Are Categorical
2.1. Ekaṁsikadhammā
And what teachings have I taught and pointed out as categorical? ‘This is suffering’ … ‘This is the origin of suffering’ … ‘This is the cessation of suffering’ … ‘This is the practice that leads to the cessation of suffering’.
Katame ca te, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsikā dhammā desitā paññattā? Idaṁ dukkhanti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto. Ayaṁ dukkhasamudayoti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto. Ayaṁ dukkhanirodhoti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto. Ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadāti kho, poṭṭhapāda, mayā ekaṁsiko dhammo desito paññatto.