--- title: "Middle Discourses · Majjhima Nikāya" author: "The Buddha" translator: "Bhikkhu Sujato" languages: [pi, en] shelf: "Pali Canon" section: 111 of 165 url: https://scriptura.si/works/pali-majjhima-nikaya/111/ cite: "The Buddha, tr. Bhikkhu Sujato, Middle Discourses · Majjhima Nikāya, section 111. Scriptura (scriptura.si), https://scriptura.si/works/pali-majjhima-nikaya/111/" --- # Middle Discourses · Majjhima Nikāya *The Buddha, tr. Bhikkhu Sujato* The 152 middle-length discourses: the simile of the saw, the snake and the raft, mindfulness of breathing, Aṅgulimāla, and the Buddha’s own account of his awakening. > Pali: the Mahāsaṅgīti Tipiṭaka (Buddha Jayanti edition, 2500), from SuttaCentral’s bilara-data, dedicated to the public domain (CC0). > English: Bhikkhu Sujato, from SuttaCentral’s bilara-data, dedicated to the public domain (CC0). Notes are not included. > Rows follow the segment numbers the two texts share, gathered into paragraphs; verse keeps its lines. ## 111. MN 101 · At Devadaha · part 1 Source: https://scriptura.si/works/pali-majjhima-nikaya/111/ · cite a paragraph as https://scriptura.si/works/pali-majjhima-nikaya/111/#p-N [¶0] MN 101 · At Devadaha > Pali: MN 101 · Devadahasutta [¶1] So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying in the land of the Sakyans, near the Sakyan town named Devadaha. There the Buddha addressed the mendicants, “Mendicants!” > Pali: Evaṁ me sutaṁ— ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sakkesu viharati devadahaṁ nāma sakyānaṁ nigamo. Tatra kho bhagavā bhikkhū āmantesi: “bhikkhavo”ti. [¶2] “Venerable sir,” they replied. The Buddha said this: > Pali: “Bhadante”ti te bhikkhū bhagavato paccassosuṁ. Bhagavā etadavoca: [¶3] “Mendicants, there are some ascetics and brahmins who have this doctrine and view: ‘Everything this individual person experiences—pleasurable, painful, or neutral—is because of past deeds. So, due to eliminating past deeds by fervent mortification, and not doing any new deeds, there’s nothing to come up in the future. With no future consequence, deeds end. With the ending of deeds, suffering ends. With the ending of suffering, feeling ends. And with the ending of feeling, all suffering will have been worn away.’ Such is the doctrine of the Jain ascetics. > Pali: “santi, bhikkhave, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino: ‘yaṁ kiñcāyaṁ purisapuggalo paṭisaṁvedeti sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, sabbaṁ taṁ pubbekatahetu. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī’ti. Evaṁvādino, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā. [¶4] I’ve gone up to the Jain ascetics who say this and said, ‘Is it really true that this is the venerables’ view?’ They admitted that it is. > Pali: Evaṁvādāhaṁ, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhe upasaṅkamitvā evaṁ vadāmi: ‘saccaṁ kira tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, evaṁvādino evaṁdiṭṭhino— yaṁ kiñcāyaṁ purisapuggalo paṭisaṁvedeti sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, sabbaṁ taṁ pubbekatahetu. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī’ti? Te ca me, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā evaṁ puṭṭhā ‘āmā’ti paṭijānanti. [¶5] I said to them, ‘But reverends, do you know for sure that you existed in the past, and it is not the case that you did not exist?’ > Pali: Tyāhaṁ evaṁ vadāmi: ‘kiṁ pana tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, jānātha— ahuvamheva mayaṁ pubbe, na nāhuvamhā’ti? [¶6] ‘No we don’t, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶7] ‘But reverends, do you know for sure that you did bad deeds in the past?’ > Pali: ‘Kiṁ pana tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, jānātha— akaramheva mayaṁ pubbe pāpakammaṁ, na nākaramhā’ti? [¶8] ‘No we don’t, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶9] ‘But reverends, do you know that you did bad deeds of this type or that?’ > Pali: ‘Kiṁ pana tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, jānātha— evarūpaṁ vā evarūpaṁ vā pāpakammaṁ akaramhā’ti? [¶10] ‘No we don’t, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶11] ‘But reverends, do you know that so much suffering has already been worn away? Or that so much suffering still remains to be worn away? Or that when so much suffering is worn away all suffering will have been worn away?’ > Pali: ‘Kiṁ pana tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, jānātha— ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ, ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjīretabbaṁ, ettakamhi vā dukkhe nijjiṇṇe sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī’ti? [¶12] ‘No we don’t, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶13] ‘But reverends, do you know about giving up unskillful qualities in this very life and embracing skillful qualities?’ > Pali: ‘Kiṁ pana tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, jānātha— diṭṭheva dhamme akusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ pahānaṁ, kusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ upasampadan’ti? [¶14] ‘No we don’t, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶15] ‘So it seems that you don’t know any of these things. In that case, it’s not appropriate for the Jain venerables to declare this. > Pali: ‘Iti kira tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, na jānātha— ahuvamheva mayaṁ pubbe, na nāhuvamhāti, na jānātha— akaramheva mayaṁ pubbe pāpakammaṁ, na nākaramhāti, na jānātha— evarūpaṁ vā evarūpaṁ vā pāpakammaṁ akaramhāti, na jānātha— ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ, ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjīretabbaṁ, ettakamhi vā dukkhe nijjiṇṇe sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatīti, na jānātha— diṭṭheva dhamme akusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ pahānaṁ, kusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ upasampadaṁ; evaṁ sante āyasmantānaṁ nigaṇṭhānaṁ na kallamassa veyyākaraṇāya: “yaṁ kiñcāyaṁ purisapuggalo paṭisaṁvedeti sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, sabbaṁ taṁ pubbekatahetu. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī”ti. [¶16] Now, supposing you did know these things. In that case, it would be appropriate for the Jain venerables to declare this. > Pali: Sace pana tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, jāneyyātha— ahuvamheva mayaṁ pubbe, na nāhuvamhāti, jāneyyātha— akaramheva mayaṁ pubbe pāpakammaṁ, na nākaramhāti, jāneyyātha— evarūpaṁ vā evarūpaṁ vā pāpakammaṁ akaramhāti, jāneyyātha— ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ, ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjīretabbaṁ, ettakamhi vā dukkhe nijjiṇṇe sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatīti, jāneyyātha— diṭṭheva dhamme akusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ pahānaṁ, kusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ upasampadaṁ; evaṁ sante āyasmantānaṁ nigaṇṭhānaṁ kallamassa veyyākaraṇāya: “yaṁ kiñcāyaṁ purisapuggalo paṭisaṁvedeti sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, sabbaṁ taṁ pubbekatahetu. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī”ti. [¶17] Suppose a man was struck by an arrow thickly smeared with poison, causing painful feelings, sharp and severe. Their friends and colleagues, relatives and kin would get a surgeon to treat them. The surgeon would cut open the wound with a scalpel, causing painful feelings, sharp and severe. They’d probe for the arrow, causing painful feelings, sharp and severe. They’d extract the arrow, causing painful feelings, sharp and severe. They’d apply cauterizing medicine to the wound, causing painful feelings, sharp and severe. After some time that wound would be healed and the skin regrown. They’d be healthy, happy, autonomous, master of themselves, able to go where they wanted. > Pali: Seyyathāpi, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, puriso sallena viddho assa savisena gāḷhūpalepanena; so sallassapi vedhanahetu dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyeyya. Tassa mittāmaccā ñātisālohitā bhisakkaṁ sallakattaṁ upaṭṭhāpeyyuṁ. Tassa so bhisakko sallakatto satthena vaṇamukhaṁ parikanteyya; so satthenapi vaṇamukhassa parikantanahetu dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyeyya. Tassa so bhisakko sallakatto esaniyā sallaṁ eseyya; so esaniyāpi sallassa esanāhetu dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyeyya. Tassa so bhisakko sallakatto sallaṁ abbuheyya; so sallassapi abbuhanahetu dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyeyya. Tassa so bhisakko sallakatto agadaṅgāraṁ vaṇamukhe odaheyya; so agadaṅgārassapi vaṇamukhe odahanahetu dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyeyya. So aparena samayena rūḷhena vaṇena sañchavinā arogo assa sukhī serī sayaṁvasī yena kāmaṅgamo. [¶18] They’d think, “Earlier I was struck by an arrow thickly smeared with poison, causing painful feelings, sharp and severe. My friends and colleagues, relatives and kin got a surgeon to treat me. At each step, the treatment was painful. But these days that wound is healed and the skin regrown. I’m healthy, happy, autonomous, my own master, able to go where I want.” > Pali: Tassa evamassa: “ahaṁ kho pubbe sallena viddho ahosiṁ savisena gāḷhūpalepanena. Sohaṁ sallassapi vedhanahetu dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyiṁ. Tassa me mittāmaccā ñātisālohitā bhisakkaṁ sallakattaṁ upaṭṭhapesuṁ. Tassa me so bhisakko sallakatto satthena vaṇamukhaṁ parikanti; sohaṁ satthenapi vaṇamukhassa parikantanahetu dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyiṁ. Tassa me so bhisakko sallakatto esaniyā sallaṁ esi; so ahaṁ esaniyāpi sallassa esanāhetu dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyiṁ. Tassa me so bhisakko sallakatto sallaṁ abbuhi; sohaṁ sallassapi abbuhanahetu dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyiṁ. Tassa me so bhisakko sallakatto agadaṅgāraṁ vaṇamukhe odahi; sohaṁ agadaṅgārassapi vaṇamukhe odahanahetu dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyiṁ. Somhi etarahi rūḷhena vaṇena sañchavinā arogo sukhī serī sayaṁvasī yena kāmaṅgamo”ti. [¶19] In the same way, reverends, if you knew about these things, it would be appropriate for the Jain venerables to declare this. > Pali: Evameva kho, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, sace tumhe jāneyyātha— ahuvamheva mayaṁ pubbe, na nāhuvamhāti, jāneyyātha— akaramheva mayaṁ pubbe pāpakammaṁ, na nākaramhāti, jāneyyātha— evarūpaṁ vā evarūpaṁ vā pāpakammaṁ akaramhāti, jāneyyātha— ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ, ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjīretabbaṁ, ettakamhi vā dukkhe nijjiṇṇe sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatīti, jāneyyātha— diṭṭheva dhamme akusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ pahānaṁ, kusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ upasampadaṁ; evaṁ sante āyasmantānaṁ nigaṇṭhānaṁ kallamassa veyyākaraṇāya: “yaṁ kiñcāyaṁ purisapuggalo paṭisaṁvedeti sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, sabbaṁ taṁ pubbekatahetu. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī”ti. [¶20] But since you don’t know any of these things, it’s not appropriate for the Jain venerables to declare this.’ > Pali: Yasmā ca kho tumhe, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, na jānātha— ahuvamheva mayaṁ pubbe, na nāhuvamhāti, na jānātha— akaramheva mayaṁ pubbe pāpakammaṁ, na nākaramhāti, na jānātha— evarūpaṁ vā evarūpaṁ vā pāpakammaṁ akaramhāti, na jānātha— ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ, ettakaṁ vā dukkhaṁ nijjīretabbaṁ, ettakamhi vā dukkhe nijjiṇṇe sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatīti, na jānātha— diṭṭheva dhamme akusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ pahānaṁ, kusalānaṁ dhammānaṁ upasampadaṁ; tasmā āyasmantānaṁ nigaṇṭhānaṁ na kallamassa veyyākaraṇāya: “yaṁ kiñcāyaṁ purisapuggalo paṭisaṁvedeti sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, sabbaṁ taṁ pubbekatahetu. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī”’ti. [¶21] When I said this, those Jain ascetics said to me, ‘Reverend, the Jain ascetic of the Ñātika clan claims to be all-knowing and all-seeing, to know and see everything without exception, thus: “Knowledge and vision are constantly and continually present to me, while walking, standing, sleeping, and waking.” > Pali: Evaṁ vutte, bhikkhave, te nigaṇṭhā maṁ etadavocuṁ: ‘nigaṇṭho, āvuso, nāṭaputto sabbaññū sabbadassāvī, aparisesaṁ ñāṇadassanaṁ paṭijānāti. “Carato ca me tiṭṭhato ca suttassa ca jāgarassa ca satataṁ samitaṁ ñāṇadassanaṁ paccupaṭṭhitan”ti. [¶22] He says: “O reverend Jain ascetics, you have done bad deeds in a past life. Wear them away with these severe and grueling austerities. And when in the present you are restrained in body, speech, and mind, you’re not doing any bad deeds for the future. So, due to eliminating past deeds by fervent mortification, and not doing any new deeds, there’s nothing to come up in the future. With no future consequence, deeds end. With the ending of deeds, suffering ends. With the ending of suffering, feeling ends. And with the ending of feeling, all suffering will have been worn away.” We endorse and accept this, and we are satisfied with it.’ > Pali: So evamāha: “atthi kho vo, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, pubbeva pāpakammaṁ kataṁ, taṁ imāya kaṭukāya dukkarakārikāya nijjīretha, yaṁ panettha etarahi kāyena saṁvutā vācāya saṁvutā manasā saṁvutā taṁ āyatiṁ pāpakammassa akaraṇaṁ. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī”ti. Tañca panamhākaṁ ruccati ceva khamati ca, tena camhā attamanā’ti. [¶23] When they said this, I said to them, ‘These five things can be seen to turn out in two different ways in this very life. What five? Faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, and acceptance of a view after deliberation. These are the five things that can be seen to turn out in two different ways in this very life. In this case, what faith in your teacher do you have when it comes to the past? What endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation?’ When I said this, I did not see any legitimate defense of their doctrine from the Jains. > Pali: Evaṁ vutte, ahaṁ, bhikkhave, te nigaṇṭhe etadavocaṁ: ‘pañca kho ime, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, dhammā diṭṭheva dhamme dvidhāvipākā. Katame pañca? Saddhā, ruci, anussavo, ākāraparivitakko, diṭṭhinijjhānakkhanti— ime kho, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, pañca dhammā diṭṭheva dhamme dvidhāvipākā. Tatrāyasmantānaṁ nigaṇṭhānaṁ kā atītaṁse satthari saddhā, kā ruci, ko anussavo, ko ākāraparivitakko, kā diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantī’ti. Evaṁvādī kho ahaṁ, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhesu na kañci sahadhammikaṁ vādapaṭihāraṁ samanupassāmi. [¶24] Furthermore, I said to those Jain ascetics, ‘What do you think, reverends? At a time of intense exertion and striving do you suffer painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings due to exertion? Whereas at a time without intense exertion and striving do you not suffer painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings due to exertion?’ > Pali: Puna caparāhaṁ, bhikkhave, te nigaṇṭhe evaṁ vadāmi: ‘taṁ kiṁ maññatha, āvuso nigaṇṭhā. Yasmiṁ vo samaye tibbo upakkamo hoti tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; yasmiṁ pana vo samaye na tibbo upakkamo hoti na tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, na tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyethā’ti? [¶25] ‘Reverend Gotama, at a time of intense exertion we suffer painful, sharp feelings due to exertion, not without intense exertion.’ > Pali: ‘Yasmiṁ no, āvuso gotama, samaye tibbo upakkamo hoti tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyāma; yasmiṁ pana no samaye na tibbo upakkamo hoti na tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, na tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyāmā’ti. [¶26] ‘So it seems that only at a time of intense exertion do you suffer painful, sharp feelings due to exertion, not without intense exertion. In that case, it’s not appropriate for the Jain venerables to declare: “Everything this individual person experiences—pleasurable, painful, or neutral—is because of past deeds. …” > Pali: ‘Iti kira, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, yasmiṁ vo samaye tibbo upakkamo hoti tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; yasmiṁ pana vo samaye na tibbo upakkamo hoti na tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, na tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha. Evaṁ sante āyasmantānaṁ nigaṇṭhānaṁ na kallamassa veyyākaraṇāya: “yaṁ kiñcāyaṁ purisapuggalo paṭisaṁvedeti sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, sabbaṁ taṁ pubbekatahetu. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī”ti. [¶27] If at a time of intense exertion you did not suffer painful, sharp feelings due to exertion, and if without intense exertion you did experience such feelings, it would be appropriate for the Jain venerables to declare this. > Pali: Sace, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, yasmiṁ vo samaye tibbo upakkamo hoti tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, na tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; yasmiṁ pana vo samaye na tibbo upakkamo hoti na tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; evaṁ sante āyasmantānaṁ nigaṇṭhānaṁ kallamassa veyyākaraṇāya: “yaṁ kiñcāyaṁ purisapuggalo paṭisaṁvedeti sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, sabbaṁ taṁ pubbekatahetu. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī”ti. [¶28] But since this is not the case, aren’t you experiencing painful, sharp feelings due only to your own exertion, which out of ignorance, unknowing, and confusion you misconstrue to imply: “Everything this individual person experiences—pleasurable, painful, or neutral—is because of past deeds. …”?’ When I said this, I did not see any legitimate defense of their doctrine from the Jains. > Pali: Yasmā ca kho, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, yasmiṁ vo samaye tibbo upakkamo hoti tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; yasmiṁ pana vo samaye na tibbo upakkamo hoti na tibbaṁ padhānaṁ, na tibbā tasmiṁ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha; te tumhe sāmaṁyeva opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vedayamānā avijjā aññāṇā sammohā vipaccetha: “yaṁ kiñcāyaṁ purisapuggalo paṭisaṁvedeti sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, sabbaṁ taṁ pubbekatahetu. Iti purāṇānaṁ kammānaṁ tapasā byantībhāvā, navānaṁ kammānaṁ akaraṇā, āyatiṁ anavassavo; āyatiṁ anavassavā kammakkhayo; kammakkhayā dukkhakkhayo; dukkhakkhayā vedanākkhayo; vedanākkhayā sabbaṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ bhavissatī”’ti. Evaṁvādīpi kho ahaṁ, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhesu na kañci sahadhammikaṁ vādapaṭihāraṁ samanupassāmi. [¶29] Furthermore, I said to those Jain ascetics, ‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced in this life, can exertion make it be experienced in lives to come?’ > Pali: Puna caparāhaṁ, bhikkhave, te nigaṇṭhe evaṁ vadāmi: ‘taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, yamidaṁ kammaṁ diṭṭhadhammavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā samparāyavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti? [¶30] ‘No, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶31] ‘But if a deed is to be experienced in lives to come, can exertion make it be experienced in this life?’ > Pali: ‘Yaṁ panidaṁ kammaṁ samparāyavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā diṭṭhadhammavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti? [¶32] ‘No, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶33] ‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced as pleasant, can exertion make it be experienced as painful?’ > Pali: ‘Taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, yamidaṁ kammaṁ sukhavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā dukkhavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti? [¶34] ‘No, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶35] ‘But if a deed is to be experienced as painful, can exertion make it be experienced as pleasant?’ > Pali: ‘Yaṁ panidaṁ kammaṁ dukkhavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā sukhavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti? [¶36] ‘No, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶37] ‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced when ripe, can exertion make it be experienced when unripe?’ > Pali: ‘Taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, yamidaṁ kammaṁ paripakkavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā aparipakkavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti? [¶38] ‘No, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶39] ‘But if a deed is to be experienced when unripe, can exertion make it be experienced when ripe?’ > Pali: ‘Yaṁ panidaṁ kammaṁ aparipakkavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā paripakkavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti? [¶40] ‘No, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶41] ‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced a lot, can exertion make it be experienced a little?’ > Pali: ‘Taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, yamidaṁ kammaṁ bahuvedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā appavedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti? [¶42] ‘No, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶43] ‘But if a deed is to be experienced a little, can exertion make it be experienced a lot?’ > Pali: ‘Yaṁ panidaṁ kammaṁ appavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā bahuvedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti? [¶44] ‘No, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶45] ‘What do you think, reverends? If a deed is to be experienced, can exertion make it not be experienced?’ > Pali: ‘Taṁ kiṁ maññathāvuso nigaṇṭhā, yamidaṁ kammaṁ savedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā avedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti? [¶46] ‘No, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶47] ‘But if a deed is not to be experienced, can exertion make it be experienced?’ > Pali: ‘Yaṁ panidaṁ kammaṁ avedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā savedanīyaṁ hotūti labbhametan’ti? [¶48] ‘No, reverend.’ > Pali: ‘No hidaṁ, āvuso’. [¶49] ‘So it seems that exertion cannot change the way deeds are experienced in any of these ways. This being so, your exertion and striving are fruitless.’ > Pali: ‘Iti kira, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, yamidaṁ kammaṁ diṭṭhadhammavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā samparāyavedanīyaṁ hotūti alabbhametaṁ, yaṁ panidaṁ kammaṁ samparāyavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā diṭṭhadhammavedanīyaṁ hotūti alabbhametaṁ, yamidaṁ kammaṁ sukhavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā dukkhavedanīyaṁ hotūti alabbhametaṁ, yamidaṁ kammaṁ dukkhavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā sukhavedanīyaṁ hotūti alabbhametaṁ, yamidaṁ kammaṁ paripakkavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā aparipakkavedanīyaṁ hotūti alabbhametaṁ, yamidaṁ kammaṁ aparipakkavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā paripakkavedanīyaṁ hotūti alabbhametaṁ, yamidaṁ kammaṁ bahuvedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā appavedanīyaṁ hotūti alabbhametaṁ, yamidaṁ kammaṁ appavedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā bahuvedanīyaṁ hotūti alabbhametaṁ, yamidaṁ kammaṁ savedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā avedanīyaṁ hotūti alabbhametaṁ, yamidaṁ kammaṁ avedanīyaṁ taṁ upakkamena vā padhānena vā savedanīyaṁ hotūti alabbhametaṁ; evaṁ sante āyasmantānaṁ nigaṇṭhānaṁ aphalo upakkamo hoti, aphalaṁ padhānaṁ’. [¶50] Such is the doctrine of the Jain ascetics. Saying this, the Jain ascetics deserve rebuttal and criticism on ten legitimate grounds. > Pali: Evaṁvādī, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā. Evaṁvādīnaṁ, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhānaṁ dasa sahadhammikā vādānuvādā gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgacchanti. [¶51] If sentient beings experience pleasure and pain because of past deeds, clearly the Jains have done bad deeds in the past, since they now experience such intense pain. If sentient beings experience pleasure and pain because of God Almighty’s creation, clearly the Jains were created by a bad God, since they now experience such intense pain. If sentient beings experience pleasure and pain because of circumstance and nature, clearly the Jains arise from bad circumstances, since they now experience such intense pain. If sentient beings experience pleasure and pain because of the class of rebirth, clearly the Jains have been reborn in a bad class, since they now experience such intense pain. If sentient beings experience pleasure and pain because of exertion in this life, clearly the Jains exert themselves badly in this life, since they now experience such intense pain. > Pali: Sace, bhikkhave, sattā pubbekatahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti; addhā, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā pubbe dukkaṭakammakārino yaṁ etarahi evarūpā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyanti. Sace, bhikkhave, sattā issaranimmānahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti; addhā, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā pāpakena issarena nimmitā yaṁ etarahi evarūpā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyanti. Sace, bhikkhave, sattā saṅgatibhāvahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti; addhā, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā pāpasaṅgatikā yaṁ etarahi evarūpā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyanti. Sace, bhikkhave, sattā abhijātihetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti; addhā, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā pāpābhijātikā yaṁ etarahi evarūpā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyanti. Sace, bhikkhave, sattā diṭṭhadhammūpakkamahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti; addhā, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā evarūpā diṭṭhadhammūpakkamā yaṁ etarahi evarūpā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyanti. [¶52] The Jains deserve criticism whether or not sentient beings experience pleasure and pain because of past deeds, or God Almighty’s creation, or circumstance and nature, or class of rebirth, or exertion in this life. Such is the doctrine of the Jain ascetics. The Jain ascetics who say this deserve rebuttal and criticism on these ten legitimate grounds. That’s how exertion and striving is fruitless. > Pali: Sace, bhikkhave, sattā pubbekatahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti, gārayhā nigaṇṭhā; no ce sattā pubbekatahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti, gārayhā nigaṇṭhā. Sace, bhikkhave, sattā issaranimmānahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti, gārayhā nigaṇṭhā; no ce sattā issaranimmānahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti, gārayhā nigaṇṭhā. Sace, bhikkhave, sattā saṅgatibhāvahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti, gārayhā nigaṇṭhā; no ce sattā saṅgatibhāvahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti, gārayhā nigaṇṭhā. Sace, bhikkhave, sattā abhijātihetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti, gārayhā nigaṇṭhā; no ce sattā abhijātihetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti, gārayhā nigaṇṭhā. Sace, bhikkhave, sattā diṭṭhadhammūpakkamahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti, gārayhā nigaṇṭhā; no ce sattā diṭṭhadhammūpakkamahetu sukhadukkhaṁ paṭisaṁvedenti, gārayhā nigaṇṭhā. Evaṁvādī, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhā. Evaṁvādīnaṁ, bhikkhave, nigaṇṭhānaṁ ime dasa sahadhammikā vādānuvādā gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgacchanti. Evaṁ kho, bhikkhave, aphalo upakkamo hoti, aphalaṁ padhānaṁ. [¶53] And how is exertion and striving fruitful? It’s when a mendicant does not bring suffering upon themselves; and they don’t forsake legitimate pleasure, but they’re not besotted with that pleasure. They understand: ‘When I actively strive I become dispassionate toward this source of suffering. But when I develop equanimity I become dispassionate toward this other source of suffering.’ So they either actively strive or develop equanimity as appropriate. Through active striving they become dispassionate toward that specific source of suffering, and so that suffering is worn away. Through developing equanimity they become dispassionate toward that other source of suffering, and so that suffering is worn away. > Pali: Kathañca, bhikkhave, saphalo upakkamo hoti, saphalaṁ padhānaṁ? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu na heva anaddhabhūtaṁ attānaṁ dukkhena addhabhāveti, dhammikañca sukhaṁ na pariccajati, tasmiñca sukhe anadhimucchito hoti. So evaṁ pajānāti: ‘imassa kho me dukkhanidānassa saṅkhāraṁ padahato saṅkhārappadhānā virāgo hoti, imassa pana me dukkhanidānassa ajjhupekkhato upekkhaṁ bhāvayato virāgo hotī’ti. So yassa hi khvāssa dukkhanidānassa saṅkhāraṁ padahato saṅkhārappadhānā virāgo hoti, saṅkhāraṁ tattha padahati. Yassa panassa dukkhanidānassa ajjhupekkhato upekkhaṁ bhāvayato virāgo hoti, upekkhaṁ tattha bhāveti. Tassa tassa dukkhanidānassa saṅkhāraṁ padahato saṅkhārappadhānā virāgo hoti— evampissa taṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ hoti. Tassa tassa dukkhanidānassa ajjhupekkhato upekkhaṁ bhāvayato virāgo hoti— evampissa taṁ dukkhaṁ nijjiṇṇaṁ hoti.