MN 80 · With Vekhanasa

MN 80 · With Vekhanasa

MN 80 · Vekhanasasutta

So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.

Evaṁ me sutaṁ— ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme.

Then the wanderer Vekhanasa went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he stood to one side, and expressed this heartfelt sentiment in the Buddha’s presence: “This is the ultimate splendor, this is the ultimate splendor.”

Atha kho vekhanaso paribbājako yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ aṭṭhāsi. Ekamantaṁ ṭhito kho vekhanaso paribbājako bhagavato santike udānaṁ udānesi: “ayaṁ paramo vaṇṇo, ayaṁ paramo vaṇṇo”ti.

“But Kaccāna, why do you say: ‘This is the ultimate splendor, this is the ultimate splendor.’ What is that ultimate splendor?”

“Kiṁ pana tvaṁ, kaccāna, evaṁ vadesi: ‘ayaṁ paramo vaṇṇo, ayaṁ paramo vaṇṇo’ti? Katamo, kaccāna, so paramo vaṇṇo”ti?

“Worthy Gotama, the ultimate splendor is the splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.”

“Yasmā, bho gotama, vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro vā paṇītataro vā natthi so paramo vaṇṇo”ti.

“But what is that ultimate splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer?”

“Katamo pana so, kaccāna, vaṇṇo yasmā vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro vā paṇītataro vā natthī”ti?

“Worthy Gotama, the ultimate splendor is the splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.”

“Yasmā, bho gotama, vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro vā paṇītataro vā natthi so paramo vaṇṇo”ti.

“Kaccāna, you could draw this out for a long time. You say, ‘The ultimate splendor is the splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.’ But you don’t describe that splendor.

“Dīghāpi kho te esā, kaccāna, phareyya: ‘yasmā, bho gotama, vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro vā paṇītataro vā natthi so paramo vaṇṇo’ti vadesi, tañca vaṇṇaṁ na paññapesi.

Suppose a man was to say, ‘Whoever the finest lady in the land is, it is her that I want, her I desire!’

Seyyathāpi, kaccāna, puriso evaṁ vadeyya: ‘ahaṁ yā imasmiṁ janapade janapadakalyāṇī, taṁ icchāmi taṁ kāmemī’ti.

They’d say to him, ‘My man, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know whether she’s an aristocrat, a brahmin, a peasant, or a menial?’

Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ: ‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ icchasi kāmesi, jānāsi taṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ—khattiyī vā brāhmaṇī vā vessī vā suddī vā’ti?

Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’

Iti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya.

They’d say to him, ‘My friend, that finest lady in the land who you desire—do you know her name or clan? Whether she’s tall or short or medium? Whether her skin is black, brown, or dingy? Whether she comes from such-and-such village, town, or city?’

Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ: ‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ icchasi kāmesi, jānāsi taṁ janapadakalyāṇiṁ evaṁnāmā evaṅgottāti vāti …pe… dīghā vā rassā vā majjhimā vā kāḷī vā sāmā vā maṅguracchavī vāti … amukasmiṁ gāme vā nigame vā nagare vā’ti?

Asked this, he’d say, ‘No.’

Iti puṭṭho ‘no’ti vadeyya.

They’d say to him, ‘My man, do you desire someone who you’ve never even known or seen?’

Tamenaṁ evaṁ vadeyyuṁ: ‘ambho purisa, yaṁ tvaṁ na jānāsi na passasi, taṁ tvaṁ icchasi kāmesī’ti?

Asked this, he’d say, ‘Yes.’

Iti puṭṭho ‘āmā’ti vadeyya.

What do you think, Kaccāna? This being so, doesn’t that man’s statement turn out to have no demonstrable basis?”

Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, nanu evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti?

“Clearly that’s the case, worthy Gotama.”

“Addhā kho, bho gotama, evaṁ sante tassa purisassa appāṭihīrakataṁ bhāsitaṁ sampajjatī”ti.

“In the same way, you say, ‘The ultimate splendor is the splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.’ But you don’t describe that splendor.”

“Evameva kho tvaṁ, kaccāna, ‘yasmā, bho gotama, vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro vā paṇītataro vā natthi so paramo vaṇṇo’ti vadesi; tañca vaṇṇaṁ na paññapesī”ti.

“Mister Gotama, suppose there was a beryl gem that was naturally lustrous, eight-faceted, well-worked. When placed on a cream rug it would shine and glow and dazzle. Such is the splendor of the self that is free of disease after death.”

“Seyyathāpi, bho gotama, maṇi veḷuriyo subho jātimā aṭṭhaṁso suparikammakato paṇḍukambale nikkhitto bhāsate ca tapate ca virocati ca, evaṁ vaṇṇo attā hoti arogo paraṁ maraṇā”ti.

“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: such a beryl gem, or a firefly in the dark of night?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yo vā maṇi veḷuriyo subho jātimā aṭṭhaṁso suparikammakato paṇḍukambale nikkhitto bhāsate ca tapate ca virocati ca, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya kimi khajjopanako imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti?

“A firefly in the dark of night.”

“Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, rattandhakāratimisāya kimi khajjopanako, ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti.

“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: a firefly in the dark of night, or an oil lamp in the dark of night?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya kimi khajjopanako, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya telappadīpo, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti?

“An oil lamp in the dark of night.”

“Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, rattandhakāratimisāya telappadīpo, ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti.

“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: an oil lamp in the dark of night, or a great mass of fire in the dark of night?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya telappadīpo, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya mahāaggikkhandho, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti?

“A great mass of fire in the dark of night.”

“Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, rattandhakāratimisāya mahāaggikkhandho, ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti.

“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: a great mass of fire in the dark of night, or the morning star in the clear and cloudless heavens at the crack of dawn?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yo vā rattandhakāratimisāya mahāaggikkhandho, yā vā rattiyā paccūsasamayaṁ viddhe vigatavalāhake deve osadhitārakā, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti?

“The morning star in the clear and cloudless heavens at the crack of dawn.”

“Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, rattiyā paccūsasamayaṁ viddhe vigatavalāhake deve osadhitārakā, ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti.

“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: the morning star in the clear and cloudless heavens at the crack of dawn, or the full moon at midnight in the clear and cloudless heavens on the fifteenth day sabbath?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yā vā rattiyā paccūsasamayaṁ viddhe vigatavalāhake deve osadhitārakā, yo vā tadahuposathe pannarase viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido aḍḍharattasamayaṁ cando, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti?

“The full moon at midnight in the clear and cloudless heavens on the fifteenth day sabbath.”

“Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, tadahuposathe pannarase viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido aḍḍharattasamayaṁ cando, ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti.

“What do you think, Kaccāna? Which of these two has a finer splendor: the full moon at midnight in the clear and cloudless heavens on the fifteenth day sabbath, or the sun at midday in the clear and cloudless heavens in the last month of the rainy season, in autumn?”

“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, kaccāna, yo vā tadahuposathe pannarase viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido aḍḍharattasamayaṁ cando, yo vā vassānaṁ pacchime māse saradasamaye viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido majjhanhikasamayaṁ sūriyo, imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ katamo vaṇṇo abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti?

“The sun at midday in the clear and cloudless heavens in the last month of the rainy season, in autumn.”

“Yvāyaṁ, bho gotama, vassānaṁ pacchime māse saradasamaye viddhe vigatavalāhake deve abhido majjhanhikasamayaṁ sūriyo—ayaṁ imesaṁ ubhinnaṁ vaṇṇānaṁ abhikkantataro ca paṇītataro cā”ti.

“Beyond this, Kaccāna, I know very many gods on whom the luminosity of the sun and moon makes no impression. Nevertheless, I do not say: ‘The splendor compared to which no other splendor is finer.’ But of the splendor inferior to a firefly you say, ‘This is the ultimate splendor.’ And you don’t describe that splendor.

“Ato kho te, kaccāna, bahū hi bahutarā devā ye imesaṁ candimasūriyānaṁ ābhā nānubhonti, tyāhaṁ pajānāmi. Atha ca panāhaṁ na vadāmi: ‘yasmā vaṇṇā añño vaṇṇo uttaritaro ca paṇītataro ca natthī’ti. Atha ca pana tvaṁ, kaccāna, ‘yvāyaṁ vaṇṇo kiminā khajjopanakena nihīnataro ca patikiṭṭhataro ca so paramo vaṇṇo’ti vadesi; tañca vaṇṇaṁ na paññapesi.

Kaccāna, there are these five kinds of sensual stimulation. What five? Sights known by the eye, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. Sounds known by the ear … Smells known by the nose … Tastes known by the tongue … Touches known by the body, which are likable, desirable, agreeable, pleasant, sensual, and arousing. These are the five kinds of sensual stimulation.

Pañca kho ime, kaccāna, kāmaguṇā. Katame pañca? Cakkhuviññeyyā rūpā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā, sotaviññeyyā saddā …pe… ghānaviññeyyā gandhā … jivhāviññeyyā rasā … kāyaviññeyyā phoṭṭhabbā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā— ime kho, kaccāna, pañca kāmaguṇā.

The pleasure and happiness that arises from these five kinds of sensual stimulation is called sensual pleasure. ‘From the senses comes sensual pleasure. Beyond sensual pleasure is the pleasure that surmounts the sensual, which is said to be the best of these.’”

Yaṁ kho, kaccāna, ime pañca kāmaguṇe paṭicca uppajjati sukhaṁ somanassaṁ idaṁ vuccati kāmasukhaṁ. Iti kāmehi kāmasukhaṁ, kāmasukhā kāmaggasukhaṁ tattha aggamakkhāyatī”ti.

When he said this, Vekhanasa said to the Buddha, “It’s incredible, worthy Gotama, it’s amazing! How well said this was by the worthy Gotama! ‘From the senses comes sensual pleasure. Beyond sensual pleasure is the pleasure that surmounts the sensual, which is said to be the best of these.’ Worthy Gotama, from the senses comes sensual pleasure. Beyond sensual pleasure is the pleasure that surmounts the sensual, which is said to be the best of these.”

Evaṁ vutte, vekhanaso paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “acchariyaṁ, bho gotama, abbhutaṁ, bho gotama. Yāva subhāsitañcidaṁ bhotā gotamena: ‘kāmehi kāmasukhaṁ, kāmasukhā kāmaggasukhaṁ tattha aggamakkhāyatī’ti. ‘Kāmehi, bho gotama, kāmasukhaṁ, kāmasukhā kāmaggasukhaṁ, tattha aggamakkhāyatī’”ti

“Kaccāna, since you have a different view, creed, and belief, and another discipline and denomination, it’s hard for you to understand the senses, sensual pleasure, and the pleasure that surmounts the sensual. There are mendicants who are perfected, who have ended the defilements, completed the spiritual journey, done what had to be done, laid down the burden, achieved their heart’s goal, utterly ended the fetter of continued existence, and are rightly freed through enlightenment. They can understand the senses, sensual pleasure, and the pleasure that surmounts the sensual.”

“dujjānaṁ kho etaṁ, kaccāna, tayā aññadiṭṭhikena aññakhantikena aññarucikena aññatrayogena aññatrācariyakena— kāmā vā kāmasukhaṁ vā kāmaggasukhaṁ vā. Ye kho te, kaccāna, bhikkhū arahanto khīṇāsavā vusitavanto katakaraṇīyā ohitabhārā anuppattasadatthā parikkhīṇabhavasaṁyojanā sammadaññāvimuttā te kho etaṁ jāneyyuṁ— kāmā vā kāmasukhaṁ vā kāmaggasukhaṁ vā”ti.

When he said this, Vekhanasa became angry and upset. He even attacked and badmouthed the Buddha himself, saying, “The ascetic Gotama will be worsted!” He said to the Buddha, “This is exactly what happens with some ascetics and brahmins. Not knowing the first beginning or seeing the final end, they nevertheless claim: ‘We understand: “Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is nothing further for this place.”’ Their statement turns out to be a joke—mere words, vacuous and hollow.”

Evaṁ vutte, vekhanaso paribbājako kupito anattamano bhagavantaṁyeva khuṁsento bhagavantaṁyeva vambhento bhagavantaṁyeva vadamāno: “samaṇo gotamo pāpito bhavissatī”ti bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “evameva panidhekacce samaṇabrāhmaṇā ajānantā pubbantaṁ, apassantā aparantaṁ atha ca pana ‘khīṇā jāti, vusitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ, kataṁ karaṇīyaṁ, nāparaṁ itthattāyāti—pajānāmā’ti—paṭijānanti. Tesamidaṁ bhāsitaṁ hassakaṁyeva sampajjati, nāmakaṁyeva sampajjati, rittakaṁyeva sampajjati, tucchakaṁyeva sampajjatī”ti.

“Kaccāna, there are some ascetics and brahmins who, not knowing the first beginning or seeing the final end, nevertheless claim: ‘We understand: “Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is nothing further for this place.”’ There is a legitimate refutation of them. Nevertheless, Kaccāna, leave aside the first beginning and the final end. Let a sensible person come—neither devious nor deceitful, a person of integrity. I teach and instruct them. Practicing as instructed they will soon know and see for themselves, ‘So this is how to be rightly released from the bond, that is, the bond of ignorance.’ Suppose there was a little baby bound with swaddling up to the neck. As they grow up and their senses mature, they’re accordingly released from those bonds. They’d know ‘I’m released,’ and there would be no more bonds.

“Ye kho te, kaccāna, samaṇabrāhmaṇā ajānantā pubbantaṁ, apassantā aparantaṁ, ‘khīṇā jāti, vusitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ, kataṁ karaṇīyaṁ, nāparaṁ itthattāyāti—pajānāmā’ti—paṭijānanti; tesaṁ soyeva sahadhammiko niggaho hoti. Api ca, kaccāna, tiṭṭhatu pubbanto, tiṭṭhatu aparanto. Etu viññū puriso asaṭho amāyāvī ujujātiko, ahamanusāsāmi ahaṁ dhammaṁ desemi. Yathānusiṭṭhaṁ tathā paṭipajjamāno nacirasseva sāmaññeva ñassati sāmaṁ dakkhiti— evaṁ kira sammā bandhanā vippamokkho hoti, yadidaṁ avijjā bandhanā. Seyyathāpi, kaccāna, daharo kumāro mando uttānaseyyako kaṇṭhapañcamehi bandhanehi baddho assa suttabandhanehi; tassa vuddhimanvāya indriyānaṁ paripākamanvāya tāni bandhanāni mucceyyuṁ; so mokkhomhīti kho jāneyya no ca bandhanaṁ.

In the same way, let a sensible person come—neither devious nor deceitful, a person of integrity. I teach and instruct them. Practicing as instructed they will soon know and see for themselves, ‘So this is how to be rightly released from the bond, that is, the bond of ignorance.’”

Evameva kho, kaccāna, etu viññū puriso asaṭho amāyāvī ujujātiko, ahamanusāsāmi, ahaṁ dhammaṁ desemi; yathānusiṭṭhaṁ tathā paṭipajjamāno nacirasseva sāmaññeva ñassati, sāmaṁ dakkhiti: ‘evaṁ kira sammā bandhanā vippamokkho hoti, yadidaṁ avijjā bandhanā’”ti.

When he said this, Vekhanasa said to the Buddha, “Excellent, worthy Gotama! … From this day forth, may the worthy Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.”

Evaṁ vutte, vekhanaso paribbājako bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “abhikkantaṁ, bho gotama …pe… upāsakaṁ maṁ bhavaṁ gotamo dhāretu ajjatagge pāṇupetaṁ saraṇaṁ gatan”ti.