SN 22.83 · With Ānanda
SN 22.83 · Ānandasutta
At Sāvatthī.
Sāvatthinidānaṁ.
There Ānanda addressed the mendicants: “Reverends, mendicants!”
Tatra kho āyasmā ānando bhikkhū āmantesi: “āvuso bhikkhave”ti.
“Reverend,” they replied. Ānanda said this:
“Āvuso”ti kho te bhikkhū āyasmato ānandassa paccassosuṁ. Āyasmā ānando etadavoca:
“Reverends, the venerable named Puṇṇa son of Mantāṇī was very helpful to me when I was just ordained. He gave me this advice: ‘Reverend Ānanda, the thought “I am” occurs because of grasping, not without grasping. Grasping what? The thought “I am” occurs because of grasping form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness, not without grasping.
“Puṇṇo nāma, āvuso, āyasmā mantāṇiputto amhākaṁ navakānaṁ sataṁ bahūpakāro hoti. So amhe iminā ovādena ovadati: ‘upādāya, āvuso ānanda, asmīti hoti, no anupādāya. Kiñca upādāya asmīti hoti, no anupādāya? Rūpaṁ upādāya asmīti hoti, no anupādāya. Vedanaṁ … saññaṁ … saṅkhāre … viññāṇaṁ upādāya asmīti hoti, no anupādāya.
Suppose there was a woman or man who was young, youthful, and fond of adornments, and they check their own reflection in a clean bright mirror or a clear bowl of water. They’d look because of grasping, not without grasping. In the same way, the thought “I am” occurs because of grasping form, feeling, perception, choices, and consciousness, not without grasping.
Seyyathāpi, āvuso ānanda, itthī vā puriso vā daharo yuvā maṇḍanakajātiko ādāse vā parisuddhe pariyodāte acche vā udakapatte sakaṁ mukhanimittaṁ paccavekkhamāno upādāya passeyya, no anupādāya; evameva kho, āvuso ānanda, rūpaṁ upādāya asmīti hoti, no anupādāya. Vedanaṁ … saññaṁ … saṅkhāre … viññāṇaṁ upādāya asmīti hoti, no anupādāya.
What do you think, Reverend Ānanda? Is form permanent or impermanent?’
Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, āvuso ānanda, rūpaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā’ti?
‘Impermanent, reverend.’
‘Aniccaṁ, āvuso’.
‘Is feeling … perception … choices … consciousness permanent or impermanent?’
‘Vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … viññāṇaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā’ti?
‘Impermanent, reverend.’ …
‘Aniccaṁ, āvuso’ …pe….
‘So you should truly see … Seeing this … They understand: “… there is nothing further for this place.”’
Tasmātiha …pe… evaṁ passaṁ …pe… nāparaṁ itthattāyāti pajānātīti.
Reverends, the venerable named Puṇṇa son of Mantāṇī was very helpful to me when I was just ordained. He gave me this advice. And when I heard this teaching from Venerable Puṇṇa son of Mantāṇī, I comprehended the teaching.”
Puṇṇo nāma, āvuso, āyasmā mantāṇiputto amhākaṁ navakānaṁ sataṁ bahūpakāro hoti. So amhe iminā ovādena ovadati. Idañca pana me āyasmato puṇṇassa mantāṇiputtassa dhammadesanaṁ sutvā dhammo abhisamito”ti.
Paṭhamaṁ.
SN 22.84 · With Tissa
SN 22.84 · Tissasutta
At Sāvatthī.
Sāvatthinidānaṁ.
Now at that time Venerable Tissa—the Buddha’s cousin on his father’s side—informed several mendicants:
Tena kho pana samayena āyasmā tisso bhagavato pitucchāputto sambahulānaṁ bhikkhūnaṁ evamāroceti:
“Reverends, my body feels like it’s drugged. I’m disorientated, the teachings don’t spring to mind, and dullness and drowsiness fill my mind. I lead the spiritual life dissatisfied, and have doubts about the teachings.”
“api me, āvuso, madhurakajāto viya kāyo; disāpi me na pakkhāyanti; dhammāpi maṁ na paṭibhanti; thinamiddhañca me cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhati; anabhirato ca brahmacariyaṁ carāmi; hoti ca me dhammesu vicikicchā”ti.
Then several mendicants went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and told him what had happened.
Atha kho sambahulā bhikkhū yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu. Ekamantaṁ nisinnā kho te bhikkhū bhagavantaṁ etadavocuṁ: “āyasmā, bhante, tisso bhagavato pitucchāputto sambahulānaṁ bhikkhūnaṁ evamāroceti: ‘api me, āvuso, madhurakajāto viya kāyo; disāpi me na pakkhāyanti; dhammāpi maṁ na paṭibhanti; thinamiddhañca me cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhati; anabhirato ca brahmacariyaṁ carāmi; hoti ca me dhammesu vicikicchā’”ti.
So the Buddha addressed one of the monks, “Please, monk, in my name tell the mendicant Tissa that the Teacher summons him.”
Atha kho bhagavā aññataraṁ bhikkhuṁ āmantesi: “ehi tvaṁ, bhikkhu, mama vacanena tissaṁ bhikkhuṁ āmantehī”ti.
“Yes, sir,” that monk replied. He went to Tissa and said to him, “Reverend Tissa, the Teacher summons you.”
“Evaṁ, bhante”ti kho so bhikkhu bhagavato paṭissutvā yenāyasmā tisso tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmantaṁ tissaṁ etadavoca: “satthā taṁ, āvuso tissa, āmantetī”ti.
“Yes, reverend,” Tissa replied. He went to the Buddha, bowed, and sat down to one side. The Buddha said to him:
“Evamāvuso”ti kho āyasmā tisso tassa bhikkhuno paṭissutvā yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṁ abhivādetvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinnaṁ kho āyasmantaṁ tissaṁ bhagavā etadavoca:
“Is it really true, Tissa, that you informed several mendicants that your body feels like it’s drugged … and you have doubts about the teachings?”
“saccaṁ kira tvaṁ, tissa, sambahulānaṁ bhikkhūnaṁ evamārocesi: ‘api me, āvuso, madhurakajāto viya kāyo …pe… hoti ca me dhammesu vicikicchā’”ti?
“Yes, sir.”
“Evaṁ, bhante”.
“What do you think, Tissa? If you’re not rid of greed, desire, fondness, thirst, passion, and craving for form, when that form decays and perishes, will it give rise to sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress?”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, tissa, rūpe avigatarāgassa avigatacchandassa avigatapemassa avigatapipāsassa avigatapariḷāhassa avigatataṇhassa, tassa rūpassa vipariṇāmaññathābhāvā uppajjanti sokaparidevadukkhadomanassupāyāsā”ti?
“Yes, sir.”
“Evaṁ, bhante”.
“Good, good, Tissa! That’s how it is, Tissa, when you’re not rid of greed for form.
“Sādhu sādhu, tissa. Evañhetaṁ, tissa, hoti. Yathā taṁ rūpe avigatarāgassa …
If you’re not rid of greed for feeling … perception … choices … consciousness, when that consciousness decays and perishes, will it give rise to sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress?”
vedanāya … saññāya … saṅkhāresu avigatarāgassa …pe… tesaṁ saṅkhārānaṁ vipariṇāmaññathābhāvā uppajjanti sokaparidevadukkhadomanassupāyāsā”ti? “Evaṁ, bhante”. “Sādhu sādhu, tissa. Evañhetaṁ, tissa, hoti. Yathā taṁ saṅkhāresu anigatarāgassa, viññāṇe avigatarāgassa avigatacchandassa avigatapemassa avigatapipāsassa avigatapariḷāhassa avigatataṇhassa, tassa viññāṇassa vipariṇāmaññathābhāvā uppajjanti sokaparidevadukkhadomanassupāyāsā”ti?
“Yes, sir.”
“Evaṁ, bhante”.
“Good, good, Tissa! That’s how it is, Tissa, when you’re not rid of greed for consciousness.
“Sādhu sādhu, tissa. Evañhetaṁ, tissa, hoti. Yathā taṁ viññāṇe avigatarāgassa.
What do you think, Tissa? If you are rid of greed, desire, fondness, thirst, passion, and craving for form, when that form decays and perishes, will it give rise to sorrow, lamentation, pain, sadness, and distress?”
Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, tissa, rūpe vigatarāgassa vigatacchandassa vigatapemassa vigatapipāsassa vigatapariḷāhassa vigatataṇhassa, tassa rūpassa vipariṇāmaññathābhāvā uppajjanti sokaparidevadukkhadomanassupāyāsā”ti?
“No, sir.”
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“Good, good, Tissa! That’s how it is, Tissa, when you are rid of greed for form … feeling … perception … choices … consciousness.
“Sādhu sādhu, tissa. Evañhetaṁ, tissa, hoti. Yathā taṁ rūpe vigatarāgassa … vedanāya … saññāya … saṅkhāresu vigatarāgassa … viññāṇe vigatarāgassa vigatacchandassa vigatapemassa vigatapipāsassa vigatapariḷāhassa vigatataṇhassa tassa viññāṇassa vipariṇāmaññathābhāvā uppajjanti sokaparidevadukkhadomanassupāyāsā”ti? “No hetaṁ, bhante”. “Sādhu sādhu, tissa. Evañhetaṁ, tissa, hoti. Yathā taṁ viññāṇe vigatarāgassa.
What do you think, Tissa? Is form permanent or impermanent?”
Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, tissa, rūpaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā”ti?
“Impermanent, sir.”
“Aniccaṁ, bhante”.
“Is feeling … perception … choices … consciousness permanent or impermanent?”
“Vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … viññāṇaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā”ti?
“Impermanent, sir.”
“Aniccaṁ, bhante”.
“So you should truly see … Seeing this … They understand: ‘… there is nothing further for this place.’
“Tasmātiha …pe… evaṁ passaṁ …pe… nāparaṁ itthattāyāti pajānāti.
Suppose, Tissa, there were two individuals. One was not skilled in the path, the other was. The one not skilled in the path would question the one skilled in the path, who would reply: ‘Come, my man, this is the path. Go down it an hour, and you’ll see a fork in the road. Ignore the left, and take the right-hand path. Go an hour more, and you’ll see a dense forest grove. Go an hour more, and you’ll see an expanse of low-lying marshes. Go an hour more, and you’ll see a large, steep cliff. Go an hour more, and you’ll see level, cleared parkland.’
Seyyathāpi, tissa, dve purisā— eko puriso amaggakusalo, eko puriso maggakusalo. Tamenaṁ so amaggakusalo puriso amuṁ maggakusalaṁ purisaṁ maggaṁ puccheyya. So evaṁ vadeyya: ‘ehi, bho purisa, ayaṁ maggo. Tena muhuttaṁ gaccha. Tena muhuttaṁ gantvā dakkhissasi dvedhāpathaṁ, tattha vāmaṁ muñcitvā dakkhiṇaṁ gaṇhāhi. Tena muhuttaṁ gaccha. Tena muhuttaṁ gantvā dakkhissasi tibbaṁ vanasaṇḍaṁ. Tena muhuttaṁ gaccha. Tena muhuttaṁ gantvā dakkhissasi mahantaṁ ninnaṁ pallalaṁ. Tena muhuttaṁ gaccha. Tena muhuttaṁ gantvā dakkhissasi sobbhaṁ papātaṁ. Tena muhuttaṁ gaccha. Tena muhuttaṁ gantvā dakkhissasi samaṁ bhūmibhāgaṁ ramaṇīyan’ti.
I’ve made up this simile to make a point. And this is what it means.
Upamā kho myāyaṁ, tissa, katā atthassa viññāpanāya. Ayaṁ cevettha attho:
‘A person who is not skilled in the path’ is a term for an ordinary unlearned person.
‘puriso amaggakusalo’ti kho, tissa, puthujjanassetaṁ adhivacanaṁ.
‘A person who is skilled in the path’ is a term for the Realized One, the perfected one, the fully awakened Buddha.
‘Puriso maggakusalo’ti kho, tissa, tathāgatassetaṁ adhivacanaṁ arahato sammāsambuddhassa.
‘A fork in the road’ is a term for doubt.
‘Dvedhāpatho’ti kho, tissa, vicikicchāyetaṁ adhivacanaṁ.
‘The left-hand path’ is a term for the wrong eightfold path, that is, wrong view … wrong immersion.
‘Vāmo maggo’ti kho, tissa, aṭṭhaṅgikassetaṁ micchāmaggassa adhivacanaṁ, seyyathidaṁ— micchādiṭṭhiyā …pe… micchāsamādhissa.
‘The right-hand path’ is a term for the noble eightfold path, that is, right view … right immersion.
‘Dakkhiṇo maggo’ti kho, tissa, ariyassetaṁ aṭṭhaṅgikassa maggassa adhivacanaṁ, seyyathidaṁ— sammādiṭṭhiyā …pe… sammāsamādhissa.
‘A dense forest grove’ is a term for ignorance.
‘Tibbo vanasaṇḍo’ti kho, tissa, avijjāyetaṁ adhivacanaṁ.
‘An expanse of low-lying marshes’ is a term for sensual pleasures.
‘Mahantaṁ ninnaṁ pallalan’ti kho, tissa, kāmānametaṁ adhivacanaṁ.
‘A large, steep cliff’ is a term for anger and distress.
‘Sobbho papāto’ti kho, tissa, kodhūpāyāsassetaṁ adhivacanaṁ.
‘Level, cleared parkland’ is a term for extinguishment.
‘Samo bhūmibhāgo ramaṇīyo’ti kho, tissa, nibbānassetaṁ adhivacanaṁ.
Rejoice, Tissa, rejoice! I am here with advice, with support, with instruction.”
Abhirama, tissa, abhirama, tissa. Ahamovādena ahamanuggahena ahamanusāsaniyā”ti.
That is what the Buddha said. Satisfied, Venerable Tissa approved what the Buddha said.
Idamavoca bhagavā. Attamano āyasmā tisso bhagavato bhāsitaṁ abhinandīti.
Dutiyaṁ.
SN 22.85 · With Yamaka
SN 22.85 · Yamakasutta
At one time Venerable Sāriputta was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery.
Ekaṁ samayaṁ āyasmā sāriputto sāvatthiyaṁ viharati jetavane anāthapiṇḍikassa ārāme.
Now at that time a mendicant named Yamaka had the following harmful misconception: “As I understand the Buddha’s teaching, a mendicant who has ended the defilements is annihilated and destroyed when their body breaks up, and doesn’t exist after death.”
Tena kho pana samayena yamakassa nāma bhikkhuno evarūpaṁ pāpakaṁ diṭṭhigataṁ uppannaṁ hoti: “tathāhaṁ bhagavatā dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi, yathā khīṇāsavo bhikkhu kāyassa bhedā ucchijjati vinassati, na hoti paraṁ maraṇā”ti.
Several mendicants heard this rumour. They went to Yamaka and exchanged greetings with him.
Assosuṁ kho sambahulā bhikkhū yamakassa kira nāma bhikkhuno evarūpaṁ pāpakaṁ diṭṭhigataṁ uppannaṁ hoti: “tathāhaṁ bhagavatā dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi, yathā khīṇāsavo bhikkhu kāyassa bhedā ucchijjati vinassati, na hoti paraṁ maraṇā”ti. Atha kho te bhikkhū yenāyasmā yamako tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmatā yamakena saddhiṁ sammodiṁsu.
When the greetings and polite conversation were over, they sat down to one side and said to him, “Is it really true, Reverend Yamaka, that you have such a harmful misconception: ‘As I understand the Buddha’s teaching, a mendicant who has ended the defilements is annihilated and destroyed when their body breaks up, and doesn’t exist after death’?”
Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu. Ekamantaṁ nisinnā kho te bhikkhū āyasmantaṁ yamakaṁ etadavocuṁ: “Saccaṁ kira te, āvuso yamaka, evarūpaṁ pāpakaṁ diṭṭhigataṁ uppannaṁ: ‘tathāhaṁ bhagavatā dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi, yathā khīṇāsavo bhikkhu kāyassa bhedā ucchijjati vinassati, na hoti paraṁ maraṇā’”ti?
“Yes, reverends, that’s how I understand the Buddha’s teaching.”
“Evaṁ khvāhaṁ, āvuso, bhagavatā dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi: ‘khīṇāsavo bhikkhu kāyassa bhedā ucchijjati vinassati, na hoti paraṁ maraṇā’”ti.
“Don’t say that, Yamaka! Don’t misrepresent the Buddha, for misrepresentation of the Buddha is not good. And the Buddha would not say that.” But even though admonished by those mendicants, Yamaka obstinately stuck to that misconception and insisted on stating it.
“Mā, āvuso yamaka, evaṁ avaca, mā bhagavantaṁ abbhācikkhi. Na hi sādhu bhagavato abbhācikkhanaṁ. Na hi bhagavā evaṁ vadeyya: ‘khīṇāsavo bhikkhu kāyassa bhedā ucchijjati vinassati, na hoti paraṁ maraṇā’”ti. Evampi kho āyasmā yamako tehi bhikkhūhi vuccamāno tatheva taṁ pāpakaṁ diṭṭhigataṁ thāmasā parāmāsā abhinivissa voharati: “tathāhaṁ bhagavatā dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi, yathā khīṇāsavo bhikkhu kāyassa bhedā ucchijjati vinassati, na hoti paraṁ maraṇā”ti.
When those mendicants were unable to dissuade Yamaka from that misconception, they rose from their seats and went to see Venerable Sāriputta. They told him what had happened, and said, “May Venerable Sāriputta please go to the mendicant Yamaka out of sympathy.” Sāriputta consented with silence.
Yato kho te bhikkhū nāsakkhiṁsu āyasmantaṁ yamakaṁ etasmā pāpakā diṭṭhigatā vivecetuṁ, atha kho te bhikkhū uṭṭhāyāsanā yenāyasmā sāriputto tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmantaṁ sāriputtaṁ etadavocuṁ: “yamakassa nāma, āvuso sāriputta, bhikkhuno evarūpaṁ pāpakaṁ diṭṭhigataṁ uppannaṁ: ‘tathāhaṁ bhagavatā dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi yathā khīṇāsavo bhikkhu kāyassa bhedā ucchijjati vinassati, na hoti paraṁ maraṇā’ti. Sādhāyasmā sāriputto yena yamako bhikkhu tenupasaṅkamatu anukampaṁ upādāyā”ti. Adhivāsesi kho āyasmā sāriputto tuṇhībhāvena.
Then in the late afternoon, Venerable Sāriputta came out of retreat, went to Venerable Yamaka and exchanged greetings with him. Seated to one side he said to Yamaka:
Atha kho āyasmā sāriputto sāyanhasamayaṁ paṭisallānā vuṭṭhito yenāyasmā yamako tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmatā yamakena saddhiṁ sammodi …pe… ekamantaṁ nisinno kho āyasmā sāriputto āyasmantaṁ yamakaṁ etadavoca:
“Is it really true, Reverend Yamaka, that you have such a harmful misconception: ‘As I understand the Buddha’s teaching, a mendicant who has ended the defilements is annihilated and destroyed when their body breaks up, and doesn’t exist after death’?”
“Saccaṁ kira te, āvuso yamaka, evarūpaṁ pāpakaṁ diṭṭhigataṁ uppannaṁ: ‘tathāhaṁ bhagavatā dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi, yathā khīṇāsavo bhikkhu kāyassa bhedā ucchijjati vinassati, na hoti paraṁ maraṇā’”ti?
“Yes, reverend, that’s how I understand the Buddha’s teaching.”
“Evaṁ khvāhaṁ, āvuso, bhagavatā dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi, yathā khīṇāsavo bhikkhu kāyassa bhedā ucchijjati vinassati, na hoti paraṁ maraṇā”ti.
“What do you think, Yamaka? Is form permanent or impermanent?”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, āvuso yamaka, rūpaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā”ti?
“Impermanent, reverend.”
“Aniccaṁ, āvuso”.
“Is feeling …” … “… perception …” … “… choices …” … “… consciousness permanent or impermanent?”
“Vedanā niccā … saññā … saṅkhārā … viññāṇaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā”ti?
“Impermanent, reverend.”
“Aniccaṁ, āvuso”.
“So you should truly see … Seeing this … They understand: ‘… there is nothing further for this place.’
“Tasmātiha …pe… evaṁ passaṁ …pe… nāparaṁ itthattāyāti pajānāti.
What do you think, Reverend Yamaka? Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to form?”
Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, āvuso yamaka, rūpaṁ tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, reverend.”
“No hetaṁ, āvuso” …
“Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to feeling?” … “… perception?” … “… choices?” … “ … consciousness?”
“vedanaṁ tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti? “No hetaṁ, āvuso” … “saññaṁ … saṅkhāre … viññāṇaṁ tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, reverend.”
“No hetaṁ, āvuso”.
“What do you think, Reverend Yamaka? Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies in relation to form?”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, āvuso yamaka, rūpasmiṁ tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, reverend.”
“No hetaṁ, āvuso”.
“Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies apart from form?”
“Aññatra rūpā tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, reverend.”
“No hetaṁ, āvuso”.
“Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies in relation to feeling?” … “… apart from feeling?” … “… in relation to perception?” … “… apart from perception?” … “… in relation to choices?” … “… apart from choices?” … “… in relation to consciousness?” …
“Vedanāya … aññatra vedanāya …pe… saññāya … aññatra saññāya … saṅkhāresu … aññatra saṅkhārehi … viññāṇasmiṁ tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No hetaṁ, āvuso”.
“… apart from consciousness?”
“Aññatra viññāṇā tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, reverend.”
“No hetaṁ, āvuso”.
“What do you think, Yamaka? Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to one who has form?” … “… feeling?” … “… perception?” … “… choices?” … “… consciousness?”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, āvuso yamaka, rūpaṁ … vedanaṁ … saññaṁ … saṅkhāre … viññāṇaṁ tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, reverend.”
“No hetaṁ, āvuso”.
“What do you think, Yamaka? Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to that one who is without form?” … “… feeling?” … “… perception?” … “… choices?” … “… consciousness?”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, āvuso yamaka, ayaṁ so arūpī … avedano … asaññī … asaṅkhāro … aviññāṇo tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, reverend.”
“No hetaṁ, āvuso”.
“In that case, Reverend Yamaka, since a realized one is not found by you as a genuine fact in this very life, is it cogent for you to declare: ‘As I understand the Buddha’s teaching, a mendicant who has ended the defilements is annihilated and destroyed when their body breaks up, and doesn’t exist after death’?”
“Ettha ca te, āvuso yamaka, diṭṭheva dhamme saccato thetato tathāgate anupalabbhiyamāne, kallaṁ nu te taṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ: ‘tathāhaṁ bhagavatā dhammaṁ desitaṁ ājānāmi, yathā khīṇāsavo bhikkhu kāyassa bhedā ucchijjati vinassati, na hoti paraṁ maraṇā’”ti?
“Reverend Sāriputta, in my ignorance, I used to have that misconception. But now that I’ve heard the teaching from Venerable Sāriputta, I’ve given up that misconception, and I’ve comprehended the teaching.”
“Ahu kho me taṁ, āvuso sāriputta, pubbe aviddasuno pāpakaṁ diṭṭhigataṁ; idañca panāyasmato sāriputtassa dhammadesanaṁ sutvā tañceva pāpakaṁ diṭṭhigataṁ pahīnaṁ, dhammo ca me abhisamito”ti.
“Reverend Yamaka, suppose they were to ask you: ‘When their body breaks up, after death, what happens to a perfected one, who has ended the defilements?’ How would you answer?”
“Sace taṁ, āvuso yamaka, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ: ‘yo so, āvuso yamaka, bhikkhu arahaṁ khīṇāsavo so kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā kiṁ hotī’ti? Evaṁ puṭṭho tvaṁ, āvuso yamaka, kinti byākareyyāsī”ti?
“Reverend, if they were to ask this, I’d answer like this: ‘Reverend, form is impermanent. What’s impermanent is suffering. What’s suffering has ceased and disappeared.
“Sace maṁ, āvuso, evaṁ puccheyyuṁ: ‘yo so, āvuso yamaka, bhikkhu arahaṁ khīṇāsavo so kāyassa bhedā paraṁ maraṇā kiṁ hotī’ti? Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, āvuso, evaṁ byākareyyaṁ: ‘rūpaṁ kho, āvuso, aniccaṁ. Yadaniccaṁ taṁ dukkhaṁ; yaṁ dukkhaṁ taṁ niruddhaṁ tadatthaṅgataṁ.
Feeling … perception … choices … consciousness is impermanent. What’s impermanent is suffering. What’s suffering has ceased and disappeared.’ That’s how I’d answer such a question.”
Vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … viññāṇaṁ aniccaṁ. Yadaniccaṁ taṁ dukkhaṁ; yaṁ dukkhaṁ taṁ niruddhaṁ tadatthaṅgatan’ti. Evaṁ puṭṭhohaṁ, āvuso, evaṁ byākareyyan”ti.
“Good, good, Reverend Yamaka! Well then, I shall give you a simile to make the meaning even clearer. Suppose there was a householder or householder’s son who was rich, with a lot of money and great wealth, and a bodyguard for protection. Then along comes a person who wants to harm, injure, and threaten him, and take his life. They’d think: ‘This householder or householder’s son is rich, with a lot of money and great wealth, and a bodyguard for protection. It won’t be easy to take his life by force. Why don’t I get close to him, then take his life?’ So he goes up to that householder or householder’s son and says: ‘Sir, I would serve you.’ They would serve that householder or householder’s son. They’d get up before him and go to bed after him, and be obliging, behaving nicely and speaking politely. The householder or householder’s son would consider them as a friend and companion, and come to trust them. But when that person realizes that they’ve gained the trust of the householder or householder’s son, then, when they know he’s alone, they’d take his life with a sharp knife.
“Sādhu sādhu, āvuso yamaka. Tena hāvuso yamaka, upamaṁ te karissāmi etasseva atthassa bhiyyoso mattāya ñāṇāya. Seyyathāpi, āvuso yamaka, gahapati vā gahapatiputto vā aḍḍho mahaddhano mahābhogo; so ca ārakkhasampanno. Tassa kocideva puriso uppajjeyya anatthakāmo ahitakāmo ayogakkhemakāmo jīvitā voropetukāmo. Tassa evamassa: ‘ayaṁ kho gahapati vā gahapatiputto vā aḍḍho mahaddhano mahābhogo; so ca ārakkhasampanno; nāyaṁ sukaro pasayha jīvitā voropetuṁ. Yannūnāhaṁ anupakhajja jīvitā voropeyyan’ti. So taṁ gahapatiṁ vā gahapatiputtaṁ vā upasaṅkamitvā evaṁ vadeyya: ‘upaṭṭhaheyyaṁ taṁ, bhante’ti. Tamenaṁ so gahapati vā gahapatiputto vā upaṭṭhāpeyya. So upaṭṭhaheyya pubbuṭṭhāyī pacchānipātī kiṅkārapaṭissāvī manāpacārī piyavādī. Tassa so gahapati vā gahapatiputto vā mittatopi naṁ saddaheyya; suhajjatopi naṁ saddaheyya; tasmiñca vissāsaṁ āpajjeyya. Yadā kho, āvuso, tassa purisassa evamassa: ‘saṁvissattho kho myāyaṁ gahapati vā gahapatiputto vā’ti, atha naṁ rahogataṁ viditvā tiṇhena satthena jīvitā voropeyya.
What do you think, Yamaka? When that person went to the householder or householder’s son and offered to serve him, weren’t they a killer then, though he didn’t know that this was his killer? And when they got up before him and went to bed after him, being obliging, behaving nicely and speaking politely, weren’t they a killer then, though he didn’t know that this was his killer? And when, knowing he was alone, they took his life with a sharp knife, weren’t they a killer then, though he didn’t know that this was his killer?”
Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, āvuso yamaka, yadā hi so puriso amuṁ gahapatiṁ vā gahapatiputtaṁ vā upasaṅkamitvā evaṁ āha: ‘upaṭṭhaheyyaṁ taṁ, bhante’ti, tadāpi so vadhakova. Vadhakañca pana santaṁ na aññāsi: ‘vadhako me’ti. Yadāpi so upaṭṭhahati pubbuṭṭhāyī pacchānipātī kiṅkārapaṭissāvī manāpacārī piyavādī, tadāpi so vadhakova. Vadhakañca pana santaṁ na aññāsi: ‘vadhako me’ti. Yadāpi naṁ rahogataṁ viditvā tiṇhena satthena jīvitā voropeti, tadāpi so vadhakova. Vadhakañca pana santaṁ na aññāsi: ‘vadhako me’”ti.
“Yes, reverend.”
“Evamāvuso”ti.
“In the same way, an unlearned ordinary person has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They’ve not seen true persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the true persons. They regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form. They regard feeling … perception … choices … They regard consciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in consciousness.
“Evameva kho, āvuso, assutavā puthujjano ariyānaṁ adassāvī ariyadhammassa akovido ariyadhamme avinīto, sappurisānaṁ adassāvī sappurisadhammassa akovido sappurisadhamme avinīto rūpaṁ attato samanupassati, rūpavantaṁ vā attānaṁ; attani vā rūpaṁ, rūpasmiṁ vā attānaṁ. Vedanaṁ … saññaṁ … saṅkhāre … viññāṇaṁ attato samanupassati, viññāṇavantaṁ vā attānaṁ; attani vā viññāṇaṁ, viññāṇasmiṁ vā attānaṁ.
They don’t truly understand form—which is impermanent—as impermanent. They don’t truly understand feeling … perception … choices … consciousness—which is impermanent—as impermanent.
So aniccaṁ rūpaṁ ‘aniccaṁ rūpan’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti. Aniccaṁ vedanaṁ ‘aniccā vedanā’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti. Aniccaṁ saññaṁ ‘aniccā saññā’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti. Anicce saṅkhāre ‘aniccā saṅkhārā’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti. Aniccaṁ viññāṇaṁ ‘aniccaṁ viññāṇan’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti.
They don’t truly understand form—which is suffering—as suffering. They don’t truly understand feeling … perception … choices … consciousness—which is suffering—as suffering.
Dukkhaṁ rūpaṁ ‘dukkhaṁ rūpan’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti. Dukkhaṁ vedanaṁ … dukkhaṁ saññaṁ … dukkhe saṅkhāre … dukkhaṁ viññāṇaṁ ‘dukkhaṁ viññāṇan’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti.
They don’t truly understand form—which is not-self—as not-self. They don’t truly understand feeling … perception … choices … consciousness—which is not-self—as not-self.
Anattaṁ rūpaṁ ‘anattā rūpan’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti. Anattaṁ vedanaṁ … anattaṁ saññaṁ … anatte saṅkhāre … anattaṁ viññāṇaṁ ‘anattaṁ viññāṇan’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti.
They don’t truly understand form—which is conditioned—as conditioned. They don’t truly understand feeling … perception … choices … consciousness—which is conditioned—as conditioned.
Saṅkhataṁ rūpaṁ ‘saṅkhataṁ rūpan’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti. Saṅkhataṁ vedanaṁ … saṅkhataṁ saññaṁ … saṅkhate saṅkhāre … saṅkhataṁ viññāṇaṁ ‘saṅkhataṁ viññāṇan’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti.
They don’t truly understand form—which is a killer—as a killer. They don’t truly understand feeling … perception … choices … consciousness—which is a killer—as a killer.
Vadhakaṁ rūpaṁ ‘vadhakaṁ rūpan’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti. Vadhakaṁ vedanaṁ ‘vadhakā vedanā’ti … vadhakaṁ saññaṁ ‘vadhakā saññā’ti … vadhake saṅkhāre ‘vadhakā saṅkhārā’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti. Vadhakaṁ viññāṇaṁ ‘vadhakaṁ viññāṇan’ti yathābhūtaṁ nappajānāti.
They’re attracted to form, grasp it, and fixate on the thought, ‘my self’. They’re attracted to feeling … perception … choices … consciousness, grasp it, and fixate on the thought, ‘my self’. And when you’ve gotten involved with and grasped these five grasping aggregates, they lead to your lasting harm and suffering.
So rūpaṁ upeti upādiyati adhiṭṭhāti ‘attā me’ti. Vedanaṁ … saññaṁ … saṅkhāre … viññāṇaṁ upeti upādiyati adhiṭṭhāti ‘attā me’ti. Tassime pañcupādānakkhandhā upetā upādinnā dīgharattaṁ ahitāya dukkhāya saṁvattanti.
A learned noble disciple has seen the noble ones, and is skilled and trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They’ve seen true persons, and are skilled and trained in the teaching of the true persons. They don’t regard form as self, self as having form, form in self, or self in form. They don’t regard feeling … perception … choices … consciousness as self, self as having consciousness, consciousness in self, or self in consciousness.
Sutavā ca kho, āvuso, ariyasāvako ariyānaṁ dassāvī …pe… sappurisadhamme suvinīto na rūpaṁ attato samanupassati, na rūpavantaṁ attānaṁ; na attani rūpaṁ, na rūpasmiṁ attānaṁ. Na vedanaṁ … na saññaṁ … na saṅkhāre … na viññāṇaṁ attato samanupassati, na viññāṇavantaṁ attānaṁ; na attani viññāṇaṁ, na viññāṇasmiṁ attānaṁ.
They truly understand form—which is impermanent—as impermanent. They truly understand feeling … perception … choices … consciousness—which is impermanent—as impermanent.
So aniccaṁ rūpaṁ ‘aniccaṁ rūpan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti. Aniccaṁ vedanaṁ … aniccaṁ saññaṁ … anicce saṅkhāre … aniccaṁ viññāṇaṁ ‘aniccaṁ viññāṇan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti.
They truly understand form—which is suffering—as suffering. They truly understand feeling … perception … choices … consciousness—which is suffering—as suffering.
Dukkhaṁ rūpaṁ ‘dukkhaṁ rūpan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti. Dukkhaṁ vedanaṁ … dukkhaṁ saññaṁ … dukkhe saṅkhāre … dukkhaṁ viññāṇaṁ ‘dukkhaṁ viññāṇan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti.
They truly understand form—which is not-self—as not-self. They truly understand feeling … perception … choices … consciousness—which is not-self—as not-self.
Anattaṁ rūpaṁ ‘anattā rūpan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti. Anattaṁ vedanaṁ … anattaṁ saññaṁ … anatte saṅkhāre … anattaṁ viññāṇaṁ ‘anattā viññāṇan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti.
They truly understand form—which is conditioned—as conditioned. They truly understand feeling … perception … choices … consciousness—which is conditioned—as conditioned.
Saṅkhataṁ rūpaṁ ‘saṅkhataṁ rūpan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti. Saṅkhataṁ vedanaṁ … saṅkhataṁ saññaṁ … saṅkhate saṅkhāre … saṅkhataṁ viññāṇaṁ ‘saṅkhataṁ viññāṇan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti.
They truly understand form—which is a killer—as a killer. They truly understand feeling … perception … choices … consciousness—which is a killer—as a killer.
Vadhakaṁ rūpaṁ ‘vadhakaṁ rūpan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti. Vadhakaṁ vedanaṁ … vadhakaṁ saññaṁ … vadhake saṅkhāre ‘vadhakā saṅkhārā’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti. Vadhakaṁ viññāṇaṁ ‘vadhakaṁ viññāṇan’ti yathābhūtaṁ pajānāti.
When it comes to form, they are not attracted, do not grasp, and do not fixate on the thought, ‘my self’. When it comes to feeling … When it comes to perception … When it comes to choices … When it comes to consciousness, they are not attracted, do not grasp, and do not fixate on the thought, ‘my self’. And when you’re not attracted to and don’t grasp these five grasping aggregates, they lead to your lasting welfare and happiness.”
So rūpaṁ na upeti, na upādiyati, nādhiṭṭhāti: ‘attā me’ti. Vedanaṁ … saññaṁ … saṅkhāre … viññāṇaṁ na upeti, na upādiyati, nādhiṭṭhāti: ‘attā me’ti. Tassime pañcupādānakkhandhā anupetā anupādinnā dīgharattaṁ hitāya sukhāya saṁvattantī”ti.
“Reverend Sāriputta, this is how it is when you have such venerables as spiritual companions to advise and instruct you out of kindness and sympathy. And after hearing this teaching by Venerable Sāriputta, my mind is freed from the defilements by not grasping.”
“Evametaṁ, āvuso sāriputta, hoti yesaṁ āyasmantānaṁ tādisā sabrahmacārino anukampakā atthakāmā ovādakā anusāsakā. Idañca pana me āyasmato sāriputtassa dhammadesanaṁ sutvā anupādāya āsavehi cittaṁ vimuttan”ti.
Tatiyaṁ.
SN 22.86 · With Anurādha
SN 22.86 · Anurādhasutta
At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof. Now at that time Venerable Anurādha was staying not far from the Buddha in a wilderness hut. Then several wanderers of other religions went up to Venerable Anurādha and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, they sat down to one side and said to him:
Ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā vesāliyaṁ viharati mahāvane kūṭāgārasālāyaṁ. Tena kho pana samayena āyasmā anurādho bhagavato avidūre araññakuṭikāyaṁ viharati. Atha kho sambahulā aññatitthiyā paribbājakā yenāyasmā anurādho tenupasaṅkamiṁsu; upasaṅkamitvā āyasmatā anurādhena saddhiṁ sammodiṁsu. Sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdiṁsu. Ekamantaṁ nisinnā kho te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā āyasmantaṁ anurādhaṁ etadavocuṁ:
“Reverend Anurādha, when a Realized One is describing a realized one—a supreme person, highest of people, who has reached the highest point—they describe them in these four ways: After death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists.”
“yo so, āvuso anurādha, tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto, taṁ tathāgato imesu catūsu ṭhānesu paññāpayamāno paññāpeti: ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā”ti?
When they said this, Venerable Anurādha said to those wanderers:
Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā anurādho te aññatitthiye paribbājake etadavoca:
“Reverends, when a Realized One is describing a realized one—a supreme person, highest of people, who has reached the highest point—they describe them other than these four ways: After death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists.” When he said this, the wanderers said to him:
“yo so āvuso tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto taṁ tathāgato aññatra imehi catūhi ṭhānehi paññāpayamāno paññāpeti: ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘hoti ca na ca hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā, ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā”ti. Evaṁ vutte, aññatitthiyā paribbājakā āyasmantaṁ anurādhaṁ etadavocuṁ:
“This mendicant must be junior, recently gone forth, or else a foolish, incompetent senior mendicant.” Then, after rebuking Venerable Anurādha by calling him “junior” and “foolish”, the wanderers rose from their seats and left.
“so cāyaṁ bhikkhu navo bhavissati acirapabbajito, thero vā pana bālo abyatto”ti. Atha kho aññatitthiyā paribbājakā āyasmantaṁ anurādhaṁ navavādena ca bālavādena ca apasādetvā uṭṭhāyāsanā pakkamiṁsu.
Soon after they had left, Anurādha thought:
Atha kho āyasmato anurādhassa acirapakkantesu tesu aññatitthiyesu paribbājakesu etadahosi:
“If those wanderers were to inquire further, how should I answer them so as to repeat what the Buddha has said, and not misrepresent him with an untruth? How should I explain in line with his teaching, so that there would be no legitimate grounds for rebuttal and criticism?”
“sace kho maṁ te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā uttariṁ pañhaṁ puccheyyuṁ. Kathaṁ byākaramāno nu khvāhaṁ tesaṁ aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ vuttavādī ceva bhagavato assaṁ, na ca bhagavantaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyyaṁ, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyyaṁ, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānuvādo gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyā”ti?
Then Venerable Anurādha went up to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and told him all that had happened.
Atha kho āyasmā anurādho yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā …pe… ekamantaṁ nisinno kho āyasmā anurādho bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “idhāhaṁ, bhante, bhagavato avidūre araññakuṭikāyaṁ viharāmi. Atha kho, bhante, sambahulā aññatitthiyā paribbājakā yenāhaṁ tenupasaṅkamiṁsu …pe… maṁ etadavocuṁ: ‘yo so, āvuso anurādha, tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto taṁ tathāgato imesu catūsu ṭhānesu paññāpayamāno paññāpeti— hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā, na hoti … hoti ca na ca hoti, neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā’”ti?
Evaṁ vuttāhaṁ, bhante, te aññatitthiye paribbājake etadavocaṁ: “yo so, āvuso, tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto, taṁ tathāgato aññatra imehi catūhi ṭhānehi paññāpayamāno paññāpeti: ‘hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vā …pe… ‘neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇā’ti vāti. Evaṁ vutte, bhante, te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā maṁ etadavocuṁ: ‘so cāyaṁ bhikkhu na vo bhavissati acirapabbajito thero vā pana bālo abyatto’ti. Atha kho maṁ, bhante, te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā navavādena ca bālavādena ca apasādetvā uṭṭhāyāsanā pakkamiṁsu.
Tassa mayhaṁ, bhante, acirapakkantesu tesu aññatitthiyesu paribbājakesu etadahosi: ‘sace kho maṁ te aññatitthiyā paribbājakā uttariṁ pañhaṁ puccheyyuṁ. Kathaṁ byākaramāno nu khvāhaṁ tesaṁ aññatitthiyānaṁ paribbājakānaṁ vuttavādī ceva bhagavato assaṁ, na ca bhagavantaṁ abhūtena abbhācikkheyyaṁ, dhammassa cānudhammaṁ byākareyyaṁ, na ca koci sahadhammiko vādānuvādo gārayhaṁ ṭhānaṁ āgaccheyyā’”ti?
“What do you think, Anurādha? Is form permanent or impermanent?”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, anurādha, rūpaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā”ti?
“Impermanent, sir.”
“Aniccaṁ, bhante”.
“But if it’s impermanent, is it suffering or happiness?”
“Yaṁ panāniccaṁ dukkhaṁ vā taṁ sukhaṁ vā”ti?
“Suffering, sir.”
“Dukkhaṁ, bhante”.
“But if it’s impermanent, suffering, and perishable, is it fit to be regarded thus: ‘This is mine, I am this, this is my self’?”
“Yaṁ panāniccaṁ dukkhaṁ vipariṇāmadhammaṁ kallaṁ nu taṁ samanupassituṁ: ‘etaṁ mama, esohamasmi, eso me attā’”ti?
“No, sir.”
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“Is feeling …” … “… perception …” … “… choices …” … “Is consciousness permanent or impermanent?”
“Vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … viññāṇaṁ niccaṁ vā aniccaṁ vā”ti?
“Impermanent, sir.” … “So you should truly see … Seeing this … They understand: ‘… there is nothing further for this place.’
“Aniccaṁ, bhante” …pe… tasmātiha …pe… evaṁ passaṁ …pe… nāparaṁ itthattāyāti pajānāti”.
What do you think, Anurādha? Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to form?”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, anurādha, rūpaṁ tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, sir.”
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to feeling?” … “… perception?” … “… choices?” … “… consciousness?”
“Vedanaṁ … saññaṁ … saṅkhāre … viññāṇaṁ tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, sir.”
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“What do you think, Anurādha? Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies in relation to form?”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, anurādha, rūpasmiṁ tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, sir.”
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies apart from form?”
“Aññatra rūpā tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, sir.”
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies in relation to feeling?” … “… apart from feeling?” … “… in relation to perception?” … “… apart from perception?” … “… in relation to choices?” … “… apart from choices?” … “… in relation to consciousness?” … “… apart from consciousness?”
“Vedanāya …pe… aññatra vedanāya …pe… saññāya … aññatra saññāya … saṅkhāresu … aññatra saṅkhārehi … viññāṇasmiṁ … aññatra viññāṇā tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, sir.”
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“What do you think, Anurādha? Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to one who has form?” … “… feeling?” … “… perception?” … “… choices?” … “… consciousness?”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, anurādha, rūpaṁ … vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … viññāṇaṁ tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, sir.”
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“What do you think, Anurādha? Do you consider that the label ‘realized one’ applies to that one who is without form?” … “… feeling?” … “… perception?” … “… choices?” … “… consciousness?”
“Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, anurādha, ayaṁ so arūpī … avedano … asaññī … asaṅkhāro … aviññāṇo tathāgatoti samanupassasī”ti?
“No, sir.”
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“In that case, Anurādha, since a realized one is not found by you as a genuine fact in this very life, is it cogent for you to declare: ‘Reverends, when a Realized One is describing a realized one—a supreme person, highest of people, who has reached the highest point—they describe them other than these four ways: After death, a realized one still exists, or no longer exists, or both still exists and no longer exists, or neither still exists nor no longer exists’?”
“Ettha ca te, anurādha, diṭṭheva dhamme saccato thetato tathāgate anupalabbhiyamāne kallaṁ nu te taṁ veyyākaraṇaṁ: ‘yo so, āvuso, tathāgato uttamapuriso paramapuriso paramapattipatto taṁ tathāgato aññatra imehi catūhi ṭhānehi paññāpayamāno paññāpeti— hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā … na hoti … hoti ca na ca hoti … neva hoti na na hoti tathāgato paraṁ maraṇāti vā’”ti?
“No, sir.”
“No hetaṁ, bhante”.
“Good, good, Anurādha! In the past, as today, what I describe is suffering and the cessation of suffering.”
“Sādhu sādhu, anurādha. Pubbe cāhaṁ, anurādha, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññapemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhan”ti.
Catutthaṁ.