Y. Soc. What you called the others, servants; they are not themselves rulers in the states.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὅπερ εἶπες νῦν, ὑπηρέτας, ἀλλʼ οὐκ αὐτοὺς ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν ἄρχοντας.
Str. But surely it was no dream that made me say we should find somewhere in this region those who more than others lay claim to the art of statesmanship; and yet it would be utterly absurd to look for them in any servile position.
ΞΕ. ἀλλὰ οὐ μὴν οἶμαί γε ἐνύπνιον ἰδὼν εἶπον ταύτῃ πῃ φανήσεσθαι τοὺς διαφερόντως ἀμφισβητοῦντας τῆς πολιτικῆς. καίτοι σφόδρα γε ἄτοπον ἂν εἶναι δόξειε τὸ ζητεῖν τούτους ἐν ὑπηρετικῇ μοίρᾳ τινί.
Y. Soc. Certainly.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν.
Str. But let us draw a little closer still to those whom we have not yet examined. There are men who have to do with divination and possess a portion of a certain menial science; for they are supposed to be interpreters of the gods to men.
ΞΕ. ἔτι δὴ προσμείξωμεν ἐγγύτερον ἐπὶ τοὺς μήπω βεβασανισμένους. εἰσὶ δὲ οἵ τε περὶ μαντικὴν ἔχοντές τινος ἐπιστήμης διακόνου μόριον· ἑρμηνευταὶ γάρ που νομίζονται παρὰ θεῶν ἀνθρώποις.
Str. And then, too, the priests, according to law and custom, know how to give the gods, by means of sacrifices, the gifts that please them from us and by prayers to ask for us the gain of good things from them; now these are both part of a servant’s art.
ΞΕ. καὶ μὴν καὶ τὸ τῶν ἱερέων αὖ γένος, ὡς τὸ νόμιμόν φησι, παρὰ μὲν ἡμῶν δωρεὰς θεοῖς διὰ θυσιῶν ἐπιστῆμόν ἐστι κατὰ νοῦν ἐκείνοις δωρεῖσθαι, παρὰ δὲ ἐκείνων ἡμῖν εὐχαῖς κτῆσιν ἀγαθῶν αἰτήσασθαι· ταῦτα δὲ διακόνου τέχνης ἐστί που μόρια ἀμφότερα.
Y. Soc. At least they seem to be so.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. φαίνεται γοῦν.
Str. At last, then, I think we are, as it were, on the track of our quarry. For the bearing of the priests and prophets is indeed full of pride, and they win high esteem because of the magnitude of their undertakings. In Egypt, for example, no king can rule without being a priest, and if he happens to have forced his way to the throne from some other class, he must enroll himself in the class of priests afterwards; and among the Greeks, too, you would find that in many states the performance of the greatest public sacrifices is a duty imposed upon the highest officials. Yes, among you Athenians this is very plain, for they say the holiest and most national of the ancient sacrifices are performed by the man whom the lot has chosen to be the King.
ΞΕ. ἤδη τοίνυν μοι δοκοῦμεν οἷόν γέ τινος ἴχνους ἐφʼ ὃ πορευόμεθα προσάπτεσθαι. τὸ γὰρ δὴ τῶν ἱερέων σχῆμα καὶ τὸ τῶν μάντεων εὖ μάλα φρονήματος πληροῦται καὶ δόξαν σεμνὴν λαμβάνει διὰ τὸ μέγεθος τῶν ἐγχειρημάτων, ὥστε περὶ μὲν Αἴγυπτον οὐδʼ ἔξεστι βασιλέα χωρὶς ἱερατικῆς ἄρχειν, ἀλλʼ ἐὰν ἄρα καὶ τύχῃ πρότερον ἐξ ἄλλου γένους βιασάμενος, ὕστερον ἀναγκαῖον εἰς τοῦτο εἰστελεῖσθαι αὐτὸν τὸ γένος· ἔτι δὲ καὶ τῶν Ἑλλήνων πολλαχοῦ ταῖς μεγίσταις ἀρχαῖς τὰ μέγιστα τῶν περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα θύματα εὕροι τις ἂν προσταττόμενα θύειν. καὶ δὴ καὶ παρʼ ὑμῖν οὐχ ἥκιστα δῆλον ὃ λέγω· τῷ γὰρ λαχόντι βασιλεῖ φασιν τῇδε τὰ σεμνότατα καὶ μάλιστα πάτρια τῶν ἀρχαίων θυσιῶν ἀποδεδόσθαι.
Y. Soc. Yes, certainly.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καὶ πάνυ γε.
Str. We must, then, examine these elected kings and priests and their assistants, and also another very large crowd of people which has just come in sight now that the others are out of the way.
ΞΕ. τούτους τε τοίνυν τοὺς κληρωτοὺς βασιλέας ἅμα καὶ ἱερέας, καὶ ὑπηρέτας αὐτῶν καί τινα ἕτερον πάμπολυν ὄχλον σκεπτέον, ὃς ἄρτι κατάδηλος νῦν ἡμῖν γέγονεν ἀποχωρισθέντων τῶν ἔμπροσθεν.
Y. Soc. Who are these people?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τίνας δʼ αὐτοὺς καὶ λέγεις;
Str. A very queer lot.
ΞΕ. καὶ μάλα τινὰς ἀτόπους.
Y. Soc. How so?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί δή;
Str. They are of very mixed race at least they seem so now, when I can just see them. For many of them are like lions and centaurs and other fierce creatures, and very many are like satyrs and the weak and cunning beasts; and they make quick exchanges of forms and qualities with one another. Ah, but now, Socrates, I think I have just made out who they are.
ΞΕ. πάμφυλόν τι γένος αὐτῶν, ὥς γε ἄρτι σκοπουμένῳ φαίνεται. πολλοὶ μὲν γὰρ λέουσι τῶν ἀνδρῶν εἴξασι καὶ Κενταύροις καὶ τοιούτοισιν ἑτέροις, πάμπολλοι δὲ Σατύροις καὶ τοῖς ἀσθενέσι καὶ πολυτρόποις θηρίοις· ταχὺ δὲ μεταλλάττουσι τάς τε ἰδέας καὶ τὴν δύναμιν εἰς ἀλλήλους. καὶ μέντοι μοι νῦν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἄρτι δοκῶ κατανενοηκέναι τοὺς ἄνδρας.
Y. Soc. Tell me; for you seem to have caught sight of something strange.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. λέγοις ἄν· ἔοικας γὰρ ἄτοπόν τι καθορᾶν.
Str. Yes, for ignorance makes things seem strange to everybody. That was what happened to me just now; when I suddenly caught sight of them I did not recognize the troop of those who busy themselves with the affairs of the state.
ΞΕ. ναί· τὸ γὰρ ἄτοπον ἐξ ἀγνοίας πᾶσι συμβαίνει. καὶ γὰρ δὴ καὶ νῦν αὐτὸς τοῦτʼ ἔπαθον· ἐξαίφνης ἠμφεγνόησα κατιδὼν τὸν περὶ τὰ τῶν πόλεων πράγματα χορόν.
Y. Soc. What troop?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ποῖον;
Str. That which of all the sophists is the greatest charlatan and most practised in charlatanry. This, although it is a hard thing to do, must be separated from the band of really statesmanlike and kingly men, if we are to get a clear view of the object of our search.
ΞΕ. τὸν πάντων τῶν σοφιστῶν μέγιστον γόητα καὶ ταύτης τῆς τέχνης ἐμπειρότατον· ὃν ἀπὸ τῶν ὄντως ὄντων πολιτικῶν καὶ βασιλικῶν καίπερ παγχάλεπον ὄντα ἀφαιρεῖν ἀφαιρετέον, εἰ μέλλομεν ἰδεῖν ἐναργῶς τὸ ζητούμενον.
Y. Soc. But we certainly cannot give that up.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ μὴν τοῦτό γε οὐκ ἀνετέον.
Str. No, of course not. I agree to that. And now please answer a question.
ΞΕ. οὔκουν δὴ κατά γε τὴν ἐμήν. καί μοι φράζε τόδε.
Y. Soc. What is it?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τὸ ποῖον;
Str. We agree that monarchy is one of the forms of government, do we not?
ΞΕ. ἆρʼ οὐ μοναρχία τῶν πολιτικῶν ἡμῖν ἀρχῶν ἐστι μία;
Str. And after monarchy one might, I should say, mention the rule of the few.
ΞΕ. καὶ μετὰ μοναρχίαν εἴποι τις ἂν οἶμαι τὴν ὑπὸ τῶν ὀλίγων δυναστείαν.
Y. Soc. Yes, of course.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς δʼ οὔ;
Str. And a third form of government is the rule of the multitude, called democracy, is it not?
ΞΕ. τρίτον δὲ σχῆμα πολιτείας οὐχ ἡ τοῦ πλήθους ἀρχή, δημοκρατία τοὔνομα κληθεῖσα;
Y. Soc. Yes, certainly.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καὶ πάνυ γε.
Str. Do not these three become after a fashion five, producing out of themselves two additional names?
ΞΕ. τρεῖς δʼ οὖσαι μῶν οὐ πέντε τρόπον τινὰ γίγνονται, δύʼ ἐξ ἑαυτῶν ἄλλα πρὸς αὑταῖς ὀνόματα τίκτουσαι;
Y. Soc. What names?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ποῖα δή;
Str. People nowadays are likely to take into consideration enforced subjection and voluntary obedience, poverty and wealth, law and lawlessness as they occur in governments, and so they divide two of the forms we mentioned, giving to the two aspects of monarchy the two names tyranny and royalty.
ΞΕ. πρὸς τὸ βίαιόν που καὶ ἑκούσιον ἀποσκοποῦντες νῦν καὶ πενίαν καὶ πλοῦτον καὶ νόμον καὶ ἀνομίαν ἐν αὐταῖς γιγνόμενα διπλῆν ἑκατέραν τοῖν δυοῖν διαιροῦντες μοναρχίαν μὲν προσαγορεύουσιν ὡς δύο παρεχομένην εἴδη δυοῖν ὀνόμασι, τυραννίδι, τὸ δὲ βασιλικῇ.
Y. Soc. Certainly.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί μήν;
Str. And the state that is ruled by the few is called, as the case may be, aristocracy or oligarchy.
ΞΕ. τὴν δὲ ὑπʼ ὀλίγων γε ἑκάστοτε κρατηθεῖσαν πόλιν ἀριστοκρατίᾳ καὶ ὀλιγαρχίᾳ.
Y. Soc. To be sure.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καὶ πάνυ γε.
Str. In the case of democracy, however, whether the multitude rule those who have property by violence or with their willing consent, and whether the laws are carefully observed or not, no one ever habitually changes the name.
ΞΕ. δημοκρατίας γε μήν, ἐάντʼ οὖν βιαίως ἐάντε ἑκουσίως τῶν τὰς οὐσίας ἐχόντων τὸ πλῆθος ἄρχῃ, καὶ ἐάντε τοὺς νόμους ἀκριβῶς φυλάττον ἐάντε μή, πάντως τοὔνομα οὐδεὶς αὐτῆς εἴωθε μεταλλάττειν.
Y. Soc. True.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἀληθῆ.
Str. Now then, do we believe that any of these forms of government which are defined by the distinctions between the one, the few, and the many, or wealth and poverty, or violence and willingness, or written constitution and absence of laws, is a right one?
ΞΕ. τί οὖν; οἰόμεθά τινα τούτων τῶν πολιτειῶν ὀρθὴν εἶναι τούτοις τοῖς ὅροις ὁρισθεῖσαν, ἑνὶ καὶ ὀλίγοις καὶ πολλοῖς, καὶ πλούτῳ καὶ πενίᾳ, καὶ τῷ βιαίῳ καὶ ἑκουσίῳ, καὶ μετὰ γραμμάτων καὶ ἄνευ νόμων συμβαίνουσαν γίγνεσθαι;
Y. Soc. I don’t see why not.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί γὰρ δὴ καὶ κωλύει;
Str. Look a bit more closely along the line I am going to point out.
ΞΕ. σκόπει δὴ σαφέστερον τῇδε ἑπόμενος.
Y. Soc. What is it?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῇ;
Str. Shall we abide by what we said in the beginning, or dissent from it?
ΞΕ. τῷ ῥηθέντι κατὰ πρώτας πότερον ἐμμενοῦμεν ἢ διαφωνήσομεν;
Y. Soc. To what do you refer?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τῷ δὴ ποίῳ λέγεις;
Str. We said, I believe, that royal power was one of the sciences.
ΞΕ. τὴν βασιλικὴν ἀρχὴν τῶν ἐπιστημῶν εἶναί τινα ἔφαμεν, οἶμαι.
Str. And not only a science, but we selected it from the rest as a science of judgement and command.
ΞΕ. καὶ τούτων γε οὐχ ἁπασῶν, ἀλλὰ κριτικὴν δήπου τινὰ καὶ ἐπιστατικὴν ἐκ τῶν ἄλλων προειλόμεθα.
Str. And from the science of command we distinguished one part which rules inanimate works, and one which rules living beings; and so we have gone on dividing in this manner to the present moment, never forgetting that it is a science, but as yet unable to state with sufficient accuracy what science it is.
ΞΕ. κἀκ τῆς ἐπιστατικῆς τὴν μὲν ἐπʼ ἀψύχοις ἔργοις, τὴν δʼ ἐπὶ ζῴοις· καὶ κατὰ τοῦτον δὴ τὸν τρόπον μερίζοντες δεῦρʼ ἀεὶ προεληλύθαμεν, ἐπιστήμης οὐκ ἐπιλανθανόμενοι, τὸ δʼ ἥτις οὐχ ἱκανῶς πω δυνάμενοι διακριβώσασθαι.
Y. Soc. You are right.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. λέγεις ὀρθῶς.
Str. Then is this our understanding, that the distinction between forms of government ought not to be found in the words few or many, or voluntary or unwilling, or wealth or poverty, but some science must be the distinguishing feature, if we are to be consistent with our previous statement?
ΞΕ. τοῦτʼ αὐτὸ τοίνυν ἆρʼ ἐννοοῦμεν, ὅτι τὸν ὅρον οὐκ ὀλίγους οὐδὲ πολλούς, οὐδὲ τὸ ἑκούσιον οὐδὲ τὸ ἀκούσιον, οὐδὲ πενίαν οὐδὲ πλοῦτον γίγνεσθαι περὶ αὐτῶν χρεών, ἀλλά τινα ἐπιστήμην, εἴπερ ἀκολουθήσομεν τοῖς πρόσθεν;
Y. Soc. Yes, indeed; it cannot be otherwise.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἀλλὰ μὴν τοῦτό γε ἀδύνατον μὴ ποιεῖν.
Str. Necessarily, then, our present duty is to inquire in which, if any, of these forms of government is engendered the science of ruling men, which is about the greatest of sciences and the most difficult to acquire. We must discover that in order to see what men are to be distinguished from the wise king—men, I mean, who pretend to be, and make many believe that they are, statesmen, but are really not such at all.
ΞΕ. ἐξ ἀνάγκης δὴ νῦν τοῦτο οὕτω σκεπτέον, ἐν τίνι ποτὲ τούτων ἐπιστήμη συμβαίνει γίγνεσθαι περὶ ἀνθρώπων ἀρχῆς, σχεδὸν τῆς χαλεπωτάτης καὶ μεγίστης κτήσασθαι. δεῖ γὰρ ἰδεῖν αὐτήν, ἵνα θεασώμεθα τίνας ἀφαιρετέον ἀπὸ τοῦ φρονίμου βασιλέως, οἳ προσποιοῦνται μὲν εἶναι πολιτικοὶ καὶ πείθουσι πολλούς, εἰσὶ δὲ οὐδαμῶς.
Y. Soc. Yes, we must do this; that is implied in what was said before.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. δεῖ γὰρ δὴ ποιεῖν τοῦτο, ὡς ὁ λόγος ἡμῖν προείρηκεν.
Str. Does it seem at all possible that a multitude in a state could acquire this science?
ΞΕ. μῶν οὖν δοκεῖ πλῆθός γε ἐν πόλει ταύτην τὴν ἐπιστήμην δυνατὸν εἶναι κτήσασθαι;
Y. Soc. By no means.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καὶ πῶς;
Str. But in a state of one thousand men could perhaps a hundred or as many as fifty acquire it adequately?
ΞΕ. ἀλλʼ ἆρα ἐν χιλιάνδρῳ πόλει δυνατὸν ἑκατόν τινας ἢ καὶ πεντήκοντα αὐτὴν ἱκανῶς κτήσασθαι;
Y. Soc. No, in that case this would be the easiest of all the arts; for we know that a city of a thousand men could never produce that number of finished draught-players in comparison with those in other Greek cities, still less so many kings. For the man who possesses the kingly science, whether he rule or not, must be called kingly, as our previous argument showed.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ῥᾴστη μεντἂν οὕτω γʼ εἴη πασῶν τῶν τεχνῶν· ἴσμεν γὰρ ὅτι χιλίων ἀνδρῶν ἄκροι πεττευταὶ τοσοῦτοι πρὸς τοὺς ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις Ἕλλησιν οὐκ ἂν γένοιντό ποτε, μή τι δὴ βασιλῆς γε. δεῖ γὰρ δὴ τόν γε τὴν βασιλικὴν ἔχοντα ἐπιστήμην, ἄν τʼ ἄρχῃ καὶ ἐὰν μή, κατὰ τὸν ἔμπροσθε λόγον ὅμως βασιλικὸν προσαγορεύεσθαι.
Str. You did well to remind me. And in agreement with this, we must, I suppose, look for the right kind of rule in one or two or very few men, whenever such right rule occurs.
ΞΕ. καλῶς ἀπεμνημόνευσας. ἑπόμενον δὲ οἶμαι τούτῳ τὴν μὲν ὀρθὴν ἀρχὴν περὶ ἕνα τινὰ καὶ δύο καὶ παντάπασιν ὀλίγους δεῖ ζητεῖν, ὅταν ὀρθὴ γίγνηται.
Y. Soc. Certainly.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί μήν;
Str. And these men, whether they rule over willing or unwilling subjects, with or without written laws, and whether they are rich or poor, must, according to our present opinion, be supposed to exercise their rule in accordance with some art or science. And physicians offer a particularly good example of this point of view. Whether they cure us against our will or with our will, by cutting us or burning us or causing us pain in any other way, and whether they do it by written rules or without them, and whether they are rich or poor, we call them physicians just the same, so long as they exercise authority by art or science, purging us or reducing us in some other way, or even adding to our weight, provided only that they who treat their patients treat them for the benefit of their health and preserve them by making them better than they were. In this way and no other, in my opinion, shall we determine this to be the only right definition of the rule of the physician or of any other rule whatsoever.
ΞΕ. τούτους δέ γε, ἐάντε ἑκόντων ἄντʼ ἀκόντων ἄρχωσιν, ἐάντε κατὰ γράμματα ἐάντε ἄνευ γραμμάτων, καὶ ἐὰν πλουτοῦντες ἢ πενόμενοι, νομιστέον, ὥσπερ νῦν ἡγούμεθα, κατὰ τέχνην ἡντινοῦν ἀρχὴν ἄρχοντας. τοὺς ἰατροὺς δὲ οὐχ ἥκιστα νενομίκαμεν, ἐάντε ἑκόντας ἐάντε ἄκοντας ἡμᾶς ἰῶνται, τέμνοντες ἢ κάοντες ἤ τινα ἄλλην ἀλγηδόνα προσάπτοντες, καὶ ἐὰν κατὰ γράμματα ἢ χωρὶς γραμμάτων, καὶ ἐὰν πένητες ὄντες ἢ πλούσιοι, πάντως οὐδὲν ἧττον ἰατρούς φαμεν, ἕωσπερ ἂν ἐπιστατοῦντες τέχνῃ, καθαίροντες εἴτε ἄλλως ἰσχναίνοντες εἴτε καὶ αὐξάνοντες, ἂν μόνον ἐπʼ ἀγαθῷ τῷ τῶν σωμάτων, βελτίω ποιοῦντες ἐκ χειρόνων, σῴζωσιν οἱ θεραπεύοντες ἕκαστοι τὰ θεραπευόμενα· ταύτῃ θήσομεν, ὡς οἶμαι, καὶ οὐκ ἄλλῃ, τοῦτον ὅρον ὀρθὸν εἶναι μόνον ἰατρικῆς καὶ ἄλλης ἡστινοσοῦν ἀρχῆς.
Y. Soc. Very true.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν.
Str. It is, then, a necessary consequence that among forms of government that one is preeminently right and is the only real government, in which the rulers are found to be truly possessed of science, not merely to seem to possess it, whether they rule by law or without law, whether their subjects are willing or unwilling, and whether they themselves are rich or poor—none of these things can be at all taken into account on any right method.
ΞΕ. ἀναγκαῖον δὴ καὶ πολιτειῶν, ὡς ἔοικε, ταύτην ὀρθὴν διαφερόντως εἶναι καὶ μόνην πολιτείαν, ἐν ᾗ τις ἂν εὑρίσκοι τοὺς ἄρχοντας ἀληθῶς ἐπιστήμονας καὶ οὐ δοκοῦντας μόνον, ἐάντε κατὰ νόμους ἐάντε ἄνευ νόμων ἄρχωσι, καὶ ἑκόντων ἢ ἀκόντων, καὶ πενόμενοι ἢ πλουτοῦντες, τούτων ὑπολογιστέον οὐδὲν οὐδαμῶς εἶναι κατʼ οὐδεμίαν ὀρθότητα.
Y. Soc. Excellent.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καλῶς.
Str. And whether they purge the state for its good by killing or banishing some of the citizens, or make it smaller by sending out colonies somewhere, as bees swarm from the hive, or bring in citizens from elsewhere to make it larger, so long as they act in accordance with science and justice and preserve and benefit it by making it better than it was, so far as is possible, that must at that time and by such characteristics be declared to be the only right form of government. All other forms must be considered not as legitimate or really existent, but as imitating this; those states which are said to be well governed imitate it better, and the others worse.
ΞΕ. καὶ ἐάντε γε ἀποκτεινύντες τινὰς ἢ καὶ ἐκβάλλοντες καθαίρωσιν ἐπʼ ἀγαθῷ τὴν πόλιν, εἴτε καὶ ἀποικίας οἷον σμήνη μελιττῶν ἐκπέμποντές ποι σμικροτέραν ποιῶσιν, ἤ τινας ἐπεισαγόμενοί ποθεν ἄλλους ἔξωθεν πολίτας ποιοῦντες αὐτὴν αὔξωσιν, ἕωσπερ ἂν ἐπιστήμῃ καὶ τῷ δικαίῳ προσχρώμενοι σῴζοντες ἐκ χείρονος βελτίω ποιῶσι κατὰ δύναμιν, ταύτην τότε καὶ κατὰ τοὺς τοιούτους ὅρους ἡμῖν μόνην ὀρθὴν πολιτείαν εἶναι ῥητέον· ὅσας δʼ ἄλλας λέγομεν, οὐ γνησίας οὐδʼ ὄντως οὔσας λεκτέον, ἀλλὰ μεμιμημένας ταύτην, ἃς μὲν ὡς εὐνόμους λέγομεν, ἐπὶ τὰ καλλίω, τὰς δὲ ἄλλας ἐπὶ τὰ αἰσχίονα [μεμιμῆσθαι].
Y. Soc. Everything else that you have said seems reasonable; but that government should be carried on without laws is a hard saying.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τὰ μὲν ἄλλα, ὦ ξένε, μετρίως ἔοικεν εἰρῆσθαι· τὸ δὲ καὶ ἄνευ νόμων δεῖν ἄρχειν χαλεπώτερον ἀκούειν ἐρρήθη.
Str. You got ahead of me a little with your question, Socrates; for I was just going to ask whether you accepted all I have said, or were displeased with anything. But now it is clear that we shall have to discuss the question of the propriety of government without laws.
ΞΕ. μικρόν γε ἔφθης με ἐρόμενος, ὦ Σώκρατες. ἔμελλον γάρ σε διερωτήσειν ταῦτα πότερον ἀποδέχῃ πάντα, ἤ τι καὶ δυσχεραίνεις τῶν λεχθέντων· νῦν δʼ ἤδη φανερὸν ὅτι τοῦτο βουλησόμεθα τὸ περὶ τῆς τῶν ἄνευ νόμων ἀρχόντων ὀρθότητος διελθεῖν ἡμᾶς.
Y. Soc. Of course we shall.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Str. In a sense, however, it is clear that law-making belongs to the science of kingship; but the best thing is not that the laws be in power, but that the man who is wise and of kingly nature be ruler. Do you see why?
ΞΕ. τρόπον τινὰ μέντοι δῆλον ὅτι τῆς βασιλικῆς ἐστιν ἡ νομοθετική· τὸ δʼ ἄριστον οὐ τοὺς νόμους ἐστὶν ἰσχύειν ἀλλʼ ἄνδρα τὸν μετὰ φρονήσεως βασιλικόν. οἶσθʼ ὅπῃ;
Y. Soc. Why is it?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῇ δὴ λέγεις;
Str. Because law could never, by determining exactly what is noblest and must just for one and all, enjoin upon them that which is best; for the differences of men and of actions and the fact that nothing, I may say, in human life is ever at rest, forbid any science whatsoever to promulgate any simple rule for everything and for all time. We agree to that, I suppose?
ΞΕ. ὅτι νόμος οὐκ ἄν ποτε δύναιτο τό τε ἄριστον καὶ τὸ δικαιότατον ἀκριβῶς πᾶσιν ἅμα περιλαβὼν τὸ βέλτιστον ἐπιτάττειν· αἱ γὰρ ἀνομοιότητες τῶν τε ἀνθρώπων καὶ τῶν πράξεων καὶ τὸ μηδέποτε μηδὲν ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν ἡσυχίαν ἄγειν τῶν ἀνθρωπίνων οὐδὲν ἐῶσιν ἁπλοῦν ἐν οὐδενὶ περὶ ἁπάντων καὶ ἐπὶ πάντα τὸν χρόνον ἀποφαίνεσθαι τέχνην οὐδʼ ἡντινοῦν. ταῦτα δὴ συγχωροῦμέν που;
Y. Soc. Yes, of course.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί μήν;
Str. But we see that law aims at pretty nearly this very thing, like a stubborn and ignorant man who allows no one to do anything contrary to his command, or even to ask a question, not even if something new occurs to some one, which is better than the rule he has himself ordained.
ΞΕ. τὸν δέ γε νόμον ὁρῶμεν σχεδὸν ἐπʼ αὐτὸ τοῦτο συντείνοντα, ὥσπερ τινὰ ἄνθρωπον αὐθάδη καὶ ἀμαθῆ καὶ μηδένα μηδὲν ἐῶντα ποιεῖν παρὰ τὴν ἑαυτοῦ τάξιν, μηδʼ ἐπερωτᾶν μηδένα, μηδʼ ἄν τι νέον ἄρα τῳ συμβαίνῃ βέλτιον παρὰ τὸν λόγον ὃν αὐτὸς ἐπέταξεν.
Y. Soc. True; the law treats each and all of us exactly as you describe.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἀληθῆ· ποιεῖ γὰρ ἀτεχνῶς καθάπερ εἴρηκας νῦν ὁ νόμος ἡμῖν ἑκάστοις.
Str. So that which is persistently simple is inapplicable to things which are never simple?
ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν ἀδύνατον εὖ ἔχειν πρὸς τὰ μηδέποτε ἁπλᾶ τὸ διὰ παντὸς γιγνόμενον ἁπλοῦν;
Y. Soc. I suppose so.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. κινδυνεύει.
Str. Why in the world, then, is it necessary to make laws, since law is not the most perfect right? We must ask the reason for this.
ΞΕ. διὰ τί δή ποτʼ οὖν ἀναγκαῖον νομοθετεῖν, ἐπειδήπερ οὐκ ὀρθότατον ὁ νόμος; ἀνευρετέον τούτου τὴν αἰτίαν.
Y. Soc. Yes, of course.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί μήν;
Str. Well, there are here at Athens, as in other cities, classes for practice in athletics to prepare for contests in running or the like, are there not?
ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν καὶ παρʼ ὑμῖν εἰσί τινες οἷαι καὶ ἐν ἄλλαις πόλεσιν ἁθρόων ἀνθρώπων ἀσκήσεις, εἴτε πρὸς δρόμον εἴτε πρὸς ἄλλο τι, φιλονικίας ἕνεκα;
Y. Soc. Yes, a great many of them.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καὶ πάνυ γε πολλαί.
Str. Now let us recall to mind the orders given by the professional trainers when they are in charge of such classes.
ΞΕ. φέρε νῦν ἀναλάβωμεν πάλιν μνήμῃ τὰς τῶν τέχνῃ γυμναζόντων ἐπιτάξεις ἐν ταῖς τοιαύταις ἀρχαῖς.
Y. Soc. What do you mean?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τὸ ποῖον;
Str. They think they cannot go into details in individual cases and order what is best for each person’s physique; they think they must employ a rougher method and give a general rule which will be good for the physique of the majority.
ΞΕ. ὅτι λεπτουργεῖν οὐκ ἐγχωρεῖν ἡγοῦνται καθʼ ἕνα ἕκαστον, τῷ σώματι τὸ προσῆκον ἑκάστῳ προστάττοντες, ἀλλὰ παχύτερον οἴονται δεῖν ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πολὺ καὶ ἐπὶ πολλοὺς τὴν τοῦ λυσιτελοῦντος τοῖς σώμασι ποιεῖσθαι τάξιν.
Y. Soc. Good.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. καλῶς.
Str. And therefore they nowadays assign equal exercise to whole classes; they make them begin at the same time and stop at the same time, whether they run or wrestle or practise any other kind of bodily exercise.
ΞΕ. διὸ δή γε καὶ ἴσους πόνους νῦν διδόντες ἁθρόοις ἅμα μὲν ἐξορμῶσιν, ἅμα δὲ καὶ καταπαύουσι δρόμου καὶ πάλης καὶ πάντων τῶν κατὰ τὰ σώματα πόνων.
Y. Soc. That is true.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἔστι ταῦτα.
Str. And so we must believe that the law-maker who is to watch over the herds and maintain justice and the obligation of contracts, will never be able by making laws for all collectively, to provide exactly that which is proper for each individual.
ΞΕ. καὶ τὸν νομοθέτην τοίνυν ἡγώμεθα, τὸν ταῖσιν ἀγέλαις ἐπιστατήσοντα τοῦ δικαίου πέρι καὶ τῶν πρὸς ἀλλήλους συμβολαίων, μή ποθʼ ἱκανὸν γενήσεσθαι πᾶσιν ἁθρόοις προστάττοντα ἀκριβῶς ἑνὶ ἑκάστῳ τὸ προσῆκον ἀποδιδόναι.
Y. Soc. Probably not, at any rate.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τὸ γοῦν εἰκός.
Str. But he will, I fancy, legislate for the majority and in a general way only roughly for individuals, whether he issues written laws or his enactments follow the unwritten traditional customs.
ΞΕ. ἀλλὰ τὸ τοῖς πολλοῖς γε οἶμαι καὶ ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πολὺ καί πως οὑτωσὶ παχυτέρως ἑκάστοις τὸν νόμον θήσει, καὶ ἐν γράμμασιν ἀποδιδοὺς καὶ ἐν ἀγραμμάτοις, πατρίοις δὲ ἔθεσι νομοθετῶν.
Y. Soc. Quite right.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὀρθῶς.
Str. Yes, quite right. For how could anyone, Socrates, sit beside each person all his life and tell him exactly what is proper for him to do? Certainly anyone who really possessed the kingly science, if he were able to do this, would hardly, I imagine, ever put obstacles in his own way by writing what we call laws.
ΞΕ. ὀρθῶς μέντοι. πῶς γὰρ ἄν τις ἱκανὸς γένοιτʼ ἄν ποτε, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὥστε διὰ βίου ἀεὶ παρακαθήμενος ἑκάστῳ διʼ ἀκριβείας προστάττειν τὸ προσῆκον; ἐπεὶ τοῦτʼ ἂν δυνατὸς ὤν, ὡς οἶμαι, τῶν τὴν βασιλικὴν ὁστισοῦν ὄντως ἐπιστήμην εἰληφότων σχολῇ ποτʼ ἂν ἑαυτῷ θεῖτʼ ἐμποδίσματα γράφων τοὺς λεχθέντας τούτους νόμους.
Y. Soc. No, at least not according to what has just been said.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἐκ τῶν νῦν γοῦν, ὦ ξένε, εἰρημένων.
Str. Or rather, my friend, not according to what is going to be said.
ΞΕ. μᾶλλον δέ γε, ὦ βέλτιστε, ἐκ τῶν μελλόντων ῥηθήσεσθαι.
Y. Soc. What is that?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τίνων δή;
Str. Something of this sort: Let us suppose that a physician or a gymnastic trainer is going away and expects to be a long time absent from his patients or pupils; if he thinks they will not remember his instructions, he would want to write them down, would he not?
ΞΕ. τῶν τοιῶνδε. εἴπωμεν γὰρ δὴ πρός γε ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἰατρὸν μέλλοντα ἢ καί τινα γυμναστικὸν ἀποδημεῖν καὶ ἀπέσεσθαι τῶν θεραπευομένων συχνόν, ὡς οἴοιτο, χρόνον, μὴ μνημονεύσειν οἰηθέντα τὰ προσταχθέντα τοὺς γυμναζομένους ἢ τοὺς κάμνοντας, ὑπομνήματα γράφειν ἂν ἐθέλειν αὐτοῖς, ἢ πῶς;
Y. Soc. Yes.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὕτως.
Str. What if he should come back again after a briefer absence than he expected? Would he not venture to substitute other rules for those written instructions if others happened to be better for his patients, because the winds or something else had, by act of God, changed unexpectedly from their usual course? Would he persist in the opinion that no one must transgress the old laws, neither he himself by enacting new ones nor his patient by venturing to do anything contrary to the written rules, under the conviction that these laws were medicinal and healthful and anything else was unhealthful and unscientific? If anything of that sort occurred in the realm of science and true art, would not any such regulations on any subject assuredly arouse the greatest ridicule?
ΞΕ. τί δʼ εἰ παρὰ δόξαν ἐλάττω χρόνον ἀποδημήσας ἔλθοι πάλιν; ἆρʼ οὐκ ἂν παρʼ ἐκεῖνα τὰ γράμματα τολμήσειεν ἄλλʼ ὑποθέσθαι, συμβαινόντων ἄλλων βελτιόνων τοῖς κάμνουσι διὰ πνεύματα ἤ τι καὶ ἄλλο παρὰ τὴν ἐλπίδα τῶν ἐκ Διὸς ἑτέρως πως τῶν εἰωθότων γενόμενα, καρτερῶν δʼ ἂν ἡγοῖτο δεῖν μὴ ἐκβαίνειν τἀρχαῖά ποτε νομοθετηθέντα μήτε αὐτὸν προστάττοντα ἄλλα μήτε τὸν κάμνοντα ἕτερα τολμῶντα παρὰ τὰ γραφέντα δρᾶν, ὡς ταῦτα ὄντα ἰατρικὰ καὶ ὑγιεινά, τὰ δὲ ἑτέρως γιγνόμενα νοσώδη τε καὶ οὐκ ἔντεχνα· ἢ πᾶν τὸ τοιοῦτον ἔν γε ἐπιστήμῃ συμβαῖνον καὶ ἀληθεῖ τέχνῃ περὶ ἅπαντα παντάπασι γέλως ἂν ὁ μέγιστος γίγνοιτο τῶν τοιούτων νομοθετημάτων;
Y. Soc. Most assuredly.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. παντάπασι μὲν οὖν.
Str. But he who has made written or unwritten laws about the just and unjust, the honorable and disgraceful, the good and the bad for the herds of men that are tended in their several cities in accordance with the laws of the law-makers, is not to be permitted to give other laws contrary to those, if the scientific law-maker, or another like him, should come! Would not such a prohibition appear in truth as ridiculous as the other?
ΞΕ. τῷ δὲ τὰ δίκαια δὴ καὶ ἄδικα καὶ καλὰ καὶ αἰσχρὰ καὶ ἀγαθὰ καὶ κακὰ γράψαντι καὶ ἄγραφα νομοθετήσαντι ταῖς τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἀγέλαις, ὁπόσαι κατὰ πόλιν ἐν ἑκάσταις νομεύονται κατὰ τοὺς τῶν γραψάντων νόμους, ἂν ὁ μετὰ τέχνης γράψας ἤ τις ἕτερος ὅμοιος ἀφίκηται, μὴ ἐξέστω δὴ παρὰ ταῦτα ἕτερα προστάττειν; ἢ καὶ τοῦτο τὸ ἀπόρρημα οὐδὲν ἧττον ἂν ἐκείνου τῇ ἀληθείᾳ γελοῖον φαίνοιτο;
Y. Soc. It certainly would.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί μήν;
Str. Do you know what people in general say about such a case?
ΞΕ. οἶσθʼ οὖν ἐπὶ τῷ τοιούτῳ λόγον τὸν παρὰ τῶν πολλῶν λεγόμενον;
Y. Soc. I don’t recall it just now off-hand.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὐκ ἐννοῶ νῦν γʼ οὕτως.
Str. Yes, it is very plausible; for they say that if anyone has anything better than the old laws to offer, he must first persuade the state, and then he may make his laws, but not otherwise.
ΞΕ. καὶ μὴν εὐπρεπής. φασὶ γὰρ δὴ δεῖν, εἴ τις γιγνώσκει παρὰ τοὺς τῶν ἔμπροσθεν βελτίους νόμους, νομοθετεῖν τὴν ἑαυτοῦ πόλιν ἕκαστον πείσαντα, ἄλλως δὲ μή.
Y. Soc. And is that not right?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τί οὖν; οὐκ ὀρθῶς;
Str. Perhaps. But suppose a man does not use persuasion, but makes an improvement by force. What is this force to be called? Answer me—or, no, not yet; first answer in reference to what we were talking of before.
ΞΕ. ἴσως. ἂν δʼ οὖν μὴ πείθων τις βιάζηται τὸ βέλτιον, ἀπόκριναι, τί τοὔνομα τῆς βίας ἔσται; μὴ μέντοι πω, περὶ δὲ τῶν ἔμπροσθεν πρότερον.
Y. Soc. What do you mean?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ποῖον δὴ λέγεις;
Str. Suppose a physician who has right knowledge of his profession does not persuade, but forces, his patient, whether man, woman, or child, to do the better thing, though it be contrary to the written precepts, what will such violence be called? The last name in the world to call it would be “unscientific and baneful error,” as the phrase is, would it not? And the patient so forced might rightly say anything else rather than that he had been treated in a baneful or unscientific way by the physicians who used force upon him.
ΞΕ. ἄν τις ἄρα μὴ πείθων τὸν ἰατρευόμενον, ἔχων δὲ ὀρθῶς τὴν τέχνην, παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα τὸ βέλτιον ἀναγκάζῃ δρᾶν παῖδα ἤ τινα ἄνδρα ἢ καὶ γυναῖκα, τί τοὔνομα τῆς βίας ἔσται ταύτης; ἆρʼ οὐ πᾶν μᾶλλον ἢ τὸ παρὰ τὴν τέχνην λεγόμενον ἁμάρτημα τὸ νοσῶδες; καὶ πάντα ὀρθῶς εἰπεῖν ἔστι πρότερον τῷ βιασθέντι περὶ τὸ τοιοῦτον πλὴν ὅτι νοσώδη καὶ ἄτεχνα πέπονθεν ὑπὸ τῶν βιασαμένων ἰατρῶν;
Y. Soc. Very true.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἀληθέστατα λέγεις.
Str. But what can we call the unscientific error in the field of statesmanship? Is it not baseness and evil and injustice?
ΞΕ. τί δὲ ἡμῖν δὴ τὸ παρὰ τὴν πολιτικὴν τέχνην ἁμάρτημα λεγόμενόν ἐστιν; ἆρʼ οὐ τὸ αἰσχρὸν καὶ [τὸ] κακὸν καὶ ἄδικον;
Y. Soc. Certainly.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. παντάπασί γε.
Str. Now if people are forced, contrary to the written laws and inherited traditions, to do what is juster and nobler and better than what they did before, tell me, will not anyone who blames such use of force, unless he is to be most utterly ridiculous, always say anything or everything rather than that those who have been so forced have suffered base and unjust and evil treatment at the hands of those who forced them?
ΞΕ. τῶν δὴ βιασθέντων παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα καὶ πάτρια δρᾶν ἕτερα δικαιότερα καὶ ἀμείνω καὶ καλλίω τῶν ἔμπροσθεν, φέρε, τὸν τῶν τοιούτων αὖ ψόγον περὶ τῆς τοιαύτης βίας, ἆρʼ, εἰ μέλλει μὴ καταγελαστότατος εἶναι πάντων, πάντʼ αὐτῷ μᾶλλον λεκτέον ἑκάστοτε πλὴν ὡς αἰσχρὰ καὶ ἄδικα καὶ κακὰ πεπόνθασιν οἱ βιασθέντες ὑπὸ τῶν βιασαμένων;
Y. Soc. Very true.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἀληθέστατα λέγεις.
Str. But would the violence be just if he who uses it is rich, and unjust if he is poor? Or if a man, whether rich or poor, by persuasion or by other means, in accordance with written laws or contrary to them, does what is for the good of the people, must not this be the truest criterion of right government, in accordance with which the wise and good man will govern the affairs of his subjects?
ΞΕ. ἀλλʼ ἆρα ἐὰν μὲν πλούσιος ὁ βιασάμενος ᾖ, δίκαια, ἂν δʼ ἄρα πένης, ἄδικα τὰ βιασθέντα ἐστίν; ἢ κἂν πείσας κἂν μὴ πείσας τις, πλούσιος ἢ πένης, ἢ κατὰ γράμματα ἢ παρὰ γράμματα, δρᾷ [μὴ σύμφορα ἢ] σύμφορα, τοῦτον δεῖ καὶ περὶ ταῦτα τὸν ὅρον εἶναι τόν γε ἀληθινώτατον ὀρθῆς πόλεως διοικήσεως, ὃν ὁ σοφὸς καὶ ἀγαθὸς ἀνὴρ διοικήσει τὸ τῶν ἀρχομένων;
Str. Just as the captain of a ship keeps watch for what is at any moment for the good of the vessel and the sailors, not by writing rules, but by making his science his law, and thus preserves his fellow voyagers, so may not a right government be established in the same way by men who could rule by this principle, making science more powerful than the laws? And whatever the wise rulers do, they can commit no error, so long as they maintain one great principle and by always dispensing absolute justice to them with wisdom and science are able to preserve the citizens and make them better than they were, so far as that is possible. Is not this true?
ΞΕ. ὥσπερ ὁ κυβερνήτης τὸ τῆς νεὼς καὶ ναυτῶν ἀεὶ συμφέρον παραφυλάττων, οὐ γράμματα τιθεὶς ἀλλὰ τὴν τέχνην νόμον παρεχόμενος, σῴζει τοὺς συνναύτας, οὕτω καὶ κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον τοῦτον παρὰ τῶν οὕτως ἄρχειν δυναμένων ὀρθὴ γίγνοιτʼ ἂν πολιτεία, τὴν τῆς τέχνης ῥώμην τῶν νόμων παρεχομένων κρείττω; καὶ πάντα ποιοῦσι τοῖς ἔμφροσιν ἄρχουσιν οὐκ ἔστιν ἁμάρτημα, μέχριπερ ἂν ἓν μέγα φυλάττωσι, τὸ μετὰ νοῦ καὶ τέχνης δικαιότατον ἀεὶ διανέμοντες τοῖς ἐν τῇ πόλει σῴζειν τε αὐτοὺς οἷοί τε ὦσιν καὶ ἀμείνους ἐκ χειρόνων ἀποτελεῖν κατὰ τὸ δυνατόν;
Y. Soc. There is no denying the truth of what you have just said.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὐκ ἔστʼ ἀντειπεῖν παρά γε ἃ νῦν εἴρηται.
Str. And those other statements cannot be denied, either.
ΞΕ. καὶ μὴν πρὸς ἐκεῖνα οὐδὲ ἀντιρρητέον.
Y. Soc. What statements?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τὰ ποῖα εἶπες;
Str. That no great number of men, whoever they may be, could ever acquire political science and be able to administer a state with wisdom, but our one right form of government must be sought in some small number or one person, and all other forms are merely, as we said before, more or less successful imitations of that.
ΞΕ. ὡς οὐκ ἄν ποτε πλῆθος οὐδʼ ὡντινωνοῦν τὴν τοιαύτην λαβὸν ἐπιστήμην οἷόν τʼ ἂν γένοιτο μετὰ νοῦ διοικεῖν πόλιν, ἀλλὰ περὶ σμικρόν τι καὶ ὀλίγον καὶ τὸ ἕν ἐστι ζητητέον τὴν μίαν ἐκείνην πολιτείαν τὴν ὀρθήν, τὰς δʼ ἄλλας μιμήματα θετέον, ὥσπερ καὶ ὀλίγον πρότερον ἐρρήθη, τὰς μὲν ἐπὶ τὰ καλλίονα, τὰς δʼ ἐπὶ τὰ αἰσχίω μιμουμένας ταύτην.
Y. Soc. What do you mean by that? I did not understand about the imitations a little while ago, either.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς τί τοῦτʼ εἴρηκας; οὐδὲ γὰρ ἄρτι δῆθεν κατέμαθον τὸ περὶ τῶν μιμημάτων.
Str. And yet it is quite a serious matter if after stirring up this question we drop it and do not go on and show the error which is committed in relation to it nowadays.
ΞΕ. καὶ μὴν οὐ φαῦλόν γε, ἂν κινήσας τις τοῦτον τὸν λόγον αὐτοῦ καταβάλῃ καὶ μὴ διελθὼν ἐνδείξηται τὸ νῦν γιγνόμενον ἁμάρτημα περὶ αὐτό.
Y. Soc. What is the error?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ποῖον δή;
Str. I will tell you what we must investigate; it is not at all familiar or easy to see, but let us try to grasp it nevertheless. Tell me this: Assuming that the form of government we have described is the only right form, don’t you see that the other forms must employ its written laws if they are to be preserved by doing that which is approved of nowadays, although it is not perfectly right?
ΞΕ. τοιόνδε τι δεῖ γε ζητεῖν, οὐ πάνυ σύνηθες οὐδὲ ῥᾴδιον ἰδεῖν· ὅμως μὴν πειρώμεθα λαβεῖν αὐτό. φέρε γάρ· ὀρθῆς ἡμῖν μόνης οὔσης ταύτης τῆς πολιτείας ἣν εἰρήκαμεν, οἶσθʼ ὅτι τὰς ἄλλας δεῖ τοῖς ταύτης συγγράμμασι χρωμένας οὕτω σῴζεσθαι, δρώσας τὸ νῦν ἐπαινούμενον, καίπερ οὐκ ὀρθότατον ὄν;
Y. Soc. What is not perfectly right?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. τὸ ποῖον;
Str. That no citizen shall dare to do anything contrary to the laws, and that he who does shall be punished by death and the most extreme penalties. And this is perfectly right and good as a second choice, as soon as you depart from the first form of which we were just speaking. Now let us tell in some detail how this which we called the second choice comes about. Shall we do so?
ΞΕ. τὸ παρὰ τοὺς νόμους μηδὲν μηδένα τολμᾶν ποιεῖν τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει, τὸν τολμῶντα δὲ θανάτῳ ζημιοῦσθαι καὶ πᾶσι τοῖς ἐσχάτοις. καὶ τοῦτʼ ἔστιν ὀρθότατα καὶ κάλλιστʼ ἔχον ὡς δεύτερον, ἐπειδὰν τὸ πρῶτόν τις μεταθῇ τὸ νυνδὴ ῥηθέν· ᾧ δὲ τρόπῳ γεγονός ἐστι τοῦτο ὃ δὴ δεύτερον ἐφήσαμεν, διαπερανώμεθα. ἦ γάρ;
Y. Soc. By all means.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Str. Let us return once more to the images which we always have to use in portraying kingly rulers.
ΞΕ. εἰς δὴ τὰς εἰκόνας ἐπανίωμεν πάλιν, αἷς ἀναγκαῖον ἀπεικάζειν ἀεὶ τοὺς βασιλικοὺς ἄρχοντας.
Y. Soc. What images?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ποίας;
Str. The noble captain of a ship and the “physician who is worth as much as many others.” Let us make a simile of them and use it to help us to discover something.
ΞΕ. τὸν γενναῖον κυβερνήτην καὶ τὸν ἑτέρων πολλῶν ἀντάξιον ἰατρόν. κατίδωμεν γὰρ δή τι σχῆμα ἐν τούτοις αὐτοῖς πλασάμενοι.
Y. Soc. What is your simile?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ποῖόν τι;
Str. Something of this sort: Imagine that we all thought in regard to captains and physicians: “We are most abominably treated by them. For whomsoever of us either of them wishes to save, he saves, one of them just like the other, and whomsoever he wishes to maltreat, he maltreats. They cut us up and burn us and order us to bring them payments of money, as if they were exacting tribute, of which they spend little or nothing for their patients; they themselves and their servants use the rest. And finally they are bribed by the patient’s relatives or enemies and actually bring about his death. And as for the captains, they commit countless other misdeeds they make plots and leave us deserted ashore when they put out to sea, they bring on mishaps at sea and so cast us into the water, and are guilty of other wrong-doings.” Now suppose, with these thoughts in mind, we deliberated about them and decided that we would no longer allow either of these arts to rule without control over slaves or free men, but that we would call an assembly either of all the people or of the rich only, and that anyone, whether he were engaged in some other form of skilled labor or were without any special qualifications, should be free to offer an opinion about navigation and diseases, how drugs and surgical or medical instruments should be applied to the patients, and how ships and nautical instruments should be used for navigation and in meeting dangers, not only those of winds and sea that affect the voyage itself, but also those met in encounters with pirates, and if battles have to be fought between ships of war; and that whatever the majority decided about these matters, whether any physicians or ship captains or merely unskilled persons took part in the deliberations, should be inscribed upon tablets and slabs or in some instances should be adopted as unwritten ancestral customs, and that henceforth forever navigation and the care of the sick should be conducted in accordance with these provisions.
ΞΕ. τοιόνδε· οἷον εἰ πάντες περὶ αὐτῶν διανοηθεῖμεν ὅτι δεινότατα ὑπʼ αὐτῶν πάσχομεν. ὃν μὲν γὰρ ἂν ἐθελήσωσιν ἡμῶν τούτων ἑκάτεροι σῴζειν, ὁμοίως δὴ σῴζουσιν, ὃν δʼ ἂν λωβᾶσθαι βουληθῶσιν, λωβῶνται τέμνοντες καὶ κάοντες καὶ προστάττοντες ἀναλώματα φέρειν παρʼ ἑαυτοὺς οἷον φόρους, ὧν σμικρὰ μὲν εἰς τὸν κάμνοντα καὶ οὐδὲν ἀναλίσκουσιν, τοῖς δʼ ἄλλοις αὐτοί τε καὶ οἱ οἰκέται χρῶνται· καὶ δὴ καὶ τελευτῶντες ἢ παρὰ συγγενῶν ἢ παρά τινων ἐχθρῶν τοῦ κάμνοντος χρήματα μισθὸν λαμβάνοντες ἀποκτεινύασιν. οἵ τʼ αὖ κυβερνῆται μυρία ἕτερα τοιαῦτα ἐργάζονται, καταλείποντές τε ἔκ τινος ἐπιβουλῆς ἐν ταῖς ἀναγωγαῖς ἐρήμους, καὶ σφάλματα ποιοῦντες ἐν τοῖς πελάγεσιν ἐκβάλλουσιν εἰς τὴν θάλατταν, καὶ ἕτερα κακουργοῦσιν. εἰ δὴ ταῦτα διανοηθέντες βουλευσαίμεθα περὶ αὐτῶν βουλήν τινα, τούτων τῶν τεχνῶν μηκέτι ἐπιτρέπειν ἄρχειν αὐτοκράτορι μηδετέρᾳ μήτʼ οὖν δούλων μήτʼ ἐλευθέρων, συλλέξαι δʼ ἐκκλησίαν ἡμῶν αὐτῶν, ἢ σύμπαντα τὸν δῆμον ἢ τοὺς πλουσίους μόνον, ἐξεῖναι δὲ καὶ ἰδιωτῶν καὶ τῶν ἄλλων δημιουργῶν περί τε πλοῦ καὶ περὶ νόσων γνώμην ξυμβαλέσθαι καθʼ ὅτι χρὴ τοῖς φαρμάκοις ἡμᾶς καὶ τοῖς ἰατρικοῖς ὀργάνοις πρὸς τοὺς κάμνοντας χρῆσθαι, καὶ δὴ καὶ τοῖς πλοίοις τε αὐτοῖς καὶ τοῖς ναυτικοῖς ὀργάνοις εἰς τὴν τῶν πλοίων χρείαν καὶ περὶ τοὺς κινδύνους τούς τε πρὸς αὐτὸν τὸν πλοῦν ἀνέμων καὶ θαλάττης πέρι καὶ πρὸς τὰς τοῖς λῃσταῖς ἐντεύξεις, καὶ ἐὰν ναυμαχεῖν ἄρα δέῃ που μακροῖς πλοίοις πρὸς ἕτερα τοιαῦτα· τὰ δὲ τῷ πλήθει δόξαντα περὶ τούτων, εἴτε τινῶν ἰατρῶν καὶ κυβερνητῶν εἴτʼ ἄλλων ἰδιωτῶν συμβουλευόντων, γράψαντας ἐν κύρβεσί τισι καὶ στήλαις, τὰ δὲ καὶ ἄγραφα πάτρια θεμένους ἔθη, κατὰ ταῦτα ἤδη πάντα τὸν ἔπειτα χρόνον ναυτίλλεσθαι καὶ τὰς τῶν καμνόντων θεραπείας ποιεῖσθαι.
Y. Soc. That is a most absurd state of things that you have described.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. κομιδῇ γε εἴρηκας ἄτοπα.
Str. And suppose that rulers of the people are set up annually, whether from the rich or from the whole people, on the principle that whoever is chosen by lot should rule, and that these rulers exercise their authority in commanding the ships or treating the sick in accordance with the written rules.
ΞΕ. κατʼ ἐνιαυτὸν δέ γε ἄρχοντας καθίστασθαι τοῦ πλήθους, εἴτε ἐκ τῶν πλουσίων εἴτε ἐκ τοῦ δήμου παντός, ὃς ἂν κληρούμενος λαγχάνῃ· τοὺς δὲ καταστάντας ἄρχοντας ἄρχειν κατὰ τὰ γράμματα κυβερνῶντας τὰς ναῦς καὶ τοὺς κάμνοντας ἰωμένους.
Y. Soc. That is still harder to imagine.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ταῦτʼ ἔτι χαλεπώτερα.
Str. Now consider what comes next. When the year of office has passed for each set of rulers, there will have to be sessions of courts in which the judges are chosen by lot either from a selected list of the rich or from the whole people, and the rulers will have to be brought before these courts and examined as to their conduct in office, and anyone who pleases can bring against the captains an accusation for failure to command the ships during the year in accordance with the written laws or the ancestral customs, and similarly against the physicians for their treatment of the sick; and if any of them is found guilty, the court shall decide what his punishment or his fine shall be.
ΞΕ. θεῶ δὴ καὶ τὸ μετὰ ταῦτα ἑπόμενον. ἐπειδὰν γὰρ δὴ τῶν ἀρχόντων ἑκάστοις ὁ ἐνιαυτὸς ἐξέλθῃ, δεήσει δικαστήρια καθίσαντας ἀνδρῶν, ἢ τῶν πλουσίων ἐκ προκρίσεως ἢ σύμπαντος αὖ τοῦ δήμου τοὺς λαχόντας, εἰς τούτους εἰσάγειν τοὺς ἄρξαντας καὶ εὐθύνειν, κατηγορεῖν δὲ τὸν βουλόμενον ὡς οὐ κατὰ τὰ γράμματα τὸν ἐνιαυτὸν ἐκυβέρνησε τὰς ναῦς οὐδὲ κατὰ τὰ παλαιὰ τῶν προγόνων ἔθη· ταὐτὰ δὲ ταῦτα καὶ περὶ τῶν τοὺς κάμνοντας ἰωμένων· ὧν δʼ ἂν καταψηφισθῇ τιμᾶν ὅτι χρὴ παθεῖν αὐτῶν τινας ἢ ἀποτίνειν.
Y. Soc. Surely anyone who consents voluntarily to hold office under such conditions would richly deserve any penalty or fine that might be imposed.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. οὐκοῦν ὅ γʼ ἐθέλων καὶ ἑκὼν ἐν τοῖς τοιούτοις ἄρχειν δικαιότατʼ ἂν ὁτιοῦν πάσχοι καὶ ἀποτίνοι.
Str. And then, in addition to all this, there will have to be a law that if anyone is found to be investigating the art of pilotage or navigation or the subject of health and true medical doctrine about winds and things hot and cold, contrary to the written rules, or to be indulging in any speculation whatsoever on such matters, he shall in the first place not be called a physician or a ship captain, but a star-gazer, a kind of loquacious sophist, and secondly anyone who is properly qualified may bring an accusation against him and hale him into court for corrupting the young and persuading them to attack the arts of navigation and medicine in opposition to the laws and to govern the ships and the sick according to their own will; and if he is found to be so persuading either young or old contrary to the laws and written rules, he shall suffer the most extreme penalties. Nothing, they say, ought to be wiser than the laws; for no one is ignorant of medicine and the laws of health or of the pilot’s art and navigation, since anyone who pleases can learn the existing written rules and ancestral customs. Now if these regulations which I speak of were to be applied to these sciences, Socrates, and to strategy and every part of the entire art of hunting and to painting or every kind of imitation and to carpentry including every kind of utensil-making, or even to husbandry and all the art that is concerned with plants, or if we were to see an art of horse-breeding conducted by written rules, or herdsmanship in general or prophecy or everything that is included in the art of serving, or draught-playing or the whole science of number, whether arithmetic or plane geometry or solid geometry or problems of motion—what would you think of carrying on all these in such a way, by written rules and not by knowledge?
ΞΕ. καὶ τοίνυν ἔτι δεήσει θέσθαι νόμον ἐπὶ πᾶσι τούτοις, ἄν τις κυβερνητικὴν καὶ τὸ ναυτικὸν ἢ τὸ ὑγιεινὸν καὶ ἰατρικῆς ἀλήθειαν περὶ πνεύματά τε καὶ θερμὰ καὶ ψυχρὰ ζητῶν φαίνηται παρὰ τὰ γράμματα καὶ σοφιζόμενος ὁτιοῦν περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα, πρῶτον μὲν μήτε ἰατρικὸν αὐτὸν μήτε κυβερνητικὸν ὀνομάζειν ἀλλὰ μετεωρολόγον, ἀδολέσχην τινὰ σοφιστήν, εἶθʼ ὡς διαφθείροντα ἄλλους νεωτέρους καὶ ἀναπείθοντα ἐπιτίθεσθαι κυβερνητικῇ καὶ ἰατρικῇ μὴ κατὰ νόμους, ἀλλʼ αὐτοκράτορας ἄρχειν τῶν πλοίων καὶ τῶν νοσούντων, γραψάμενον εἰσάγειν τὸν βουλόμενον οἷς ἔξεστιν εἰς δή τι δικαστήριον· ἂν δὲ παρὰ τοὺς νόμους καὶ τὰ γεγραμμένα δόξῃ πείθειν εἴτε νέους εἴτε πρεσβύτας, κολάζειν τοῖς ἐσχάτοις. οὐδὲν γὰρ δεῖν τῶν νόμων εἶναι σοφώτερον· οὐδένα γὰρ ἀγνοεῖν τό τε ἰατρικὸν καὶ τὸ ὑγιεινὸν οὐδὲ τὸ κυβερνητικὸν καὶ ναυτικόν· ἐξεῖναι γὰρ τῷ βουλομένῳ μανθάνειν γεγραμμένα καὶ πάτρια ἔθη κείμενα. ταῦτα δὴ περί τε ταύτας τὰς ἐπιστήμας εἰ γίγνοιτο οὕτως ὡς λέγομεν, ὦ Σώκρατες, καὶ στρατηγικῆς καὶ συμπάσης ἡστινοσοῦν θηρευτικῆς καὶ γραφικῆς ἢ συμπάσης μέρος ὁτιοῦν μιμητικῆς καὶ τεκτονικῆς καὶ συνόλης ὁποιασοῦν σκευουργίας ἢ καὶ γεωργίας καὶ τῆς περὶ τὰ φυτὰ συνόλης τέχνης, ἢ καί τινα ἱπποφορβίαν αὖ κατὰ συγγράμματα θεασαίμεθα γιγνομένην ἢ σύμπασαν ἀγελαιοκομικὴν ἢ μαντικὴν ἢ πᾶν ὅτι μέρος διακονικὴ περιείληφεν, ἢ πεττείαν ἢ σύμπασαν ἀριθμητικὴν ψιλὴν εἴτε ἐπίπεδον εἴτʼ ἐν βάθεσιν εἴτʼ ἐν τάχεσιν οὖσάν που, — περὶ ἅπαντα ταῦτα οὕτω πραττόμενα τί ποτʼ ἂν φανείη, κατὰ συγγράμματα γιγνόμενα καὶ μὴ κατὰ τέχνην;
Y. Soc. Clearly all the arts would be utterly ruined, nor could they ever rise again, through the operation of the law prohibiting investigation; and so life, which is hard enough now, would then become absolutely unendurable.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. δῆλον ὅτι πᾶσαί τε αἱ τέχναι παντελῶς ἂν ἀπόλοιντο ἡμῖν, καὶ οὐδʼ εἰς αὖθις γένοιντʼ ἄν ποτε διὰ τὸν ἀποκωλύοντα τοῦτον ζητεῖν νόμον· ὥστε ὁ βίος, ὢν καὶ νῦν χαλεπός, εἰς τὸν χρόνον ἐκεῖνον ἀβίωτος γίγνοιτʼ ἂν τὸ παράπαν.
Str. Here is a further point. If we ordained that each of the aforesaid arts must be carried on by written rules and that the observance of our written rules be under the charge of the man who is elected or chosen by lot, but he should disregard the written rules and for the sake of some gain or to do a favor to some one should try to act contrary to them, without possessing any knowledge, would not this be a greater evil than the former?
ΞΕ. τί δὲ τόδε; εἰ κατὰ συγγράμματα μὲν ἀναγκάζοιμεν ἕκαστον γίγνεσθαι τῶν εἰρημένων καὶ τοῖς συγγράμμασιν ἡμῶν ἐπιστατεῖν τὸν χειροτονηθέντα ἢ λαχόντα ἐκ τύχης, οὗτος δὲ μηδὲν φροντίζων τῶν γραμμάτων ἢ κέρδους ἕνεκέν τινος ἢ χάριτος ἰδίας παρὰ ταῦτʼ ἐπιχειροῖ δρᾶν ἕτερα, μηδὲν γιγνώσκων, ἆρα οὐ τοῦ κακοῦ τοῦ πρόσθεν μεῖζον ἂν ἔτι τοῦτο γίγνοιτο κακόν;
Y. Soc. Most assuredly.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἀληθέστατά [γε].
Str. Since the laws are made after long experience and after commissioners of some kind have carefully considered each detail with delicate skill and have persuaded the people to pass them, anyone, I fancy, who ventured to violate them would be involved in error many times greater than the first, and would cause even greater ruin than the written laws to all kinds of transactions.
ΞΕ. παρὰ γὰρ οἶμαι τοὺς νόμους τοὺς ἐκ πείρας πολλῆς κειμένους καί τινων συμβούλων ἕκαστα χαριέντως συμβουλευσάντων καὶ πεισάντων θέσθαι τὸ πλῆθος, ὁ παρὰ ταῦτα τολμῶν δρᾶν, ἁμαρτήματος ἁμάρτημα πολλαπλάσιον ἀπεργαζόμενος, ἀνατρέποι πᾶσαν ἂν πρᾶξιν ἔτι μειζόνως τῶν συγγραμμάτων.
Y. Soc. Of course he would.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς δʼ οὐ μέλλει;
Str. Therefore the next best course for those who make laws or written rules about anything whatsoever is to prohibit any violation of them whatsoever, either by one person or by a greater number.
ΞΕ. διὰ ταῦτα δὴ τοῖς περὶ ὁτουοῦν νόμους καὶ συγγράμματα τιθεμένοις δεύτερος πλοῦς τὸ παρὰ ταῦτα μήτε ἕνα μήτε πλῆθος μηδὲν μηδέποτε ἐᾶν δρᾶν μηδʼ ὁτιοῦν.
Y. Soc. Right.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ὀρθῶς.
Str. These laws, then, written by men who know in so far as knowledge is possible, are imitations in each instance of some part of truth?
ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν μιμήματα μὲν ἂν ἑκάστων ταῦτα εἴη τῆς ἀληθείας, τὰ παρὰ τῶν εἰδότων εἰς δύναμιν εἶναι γεγραμμένα;
Y. Soc. Of course.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς δʼ οὔ;
Str. And yet we said, if we remember, that the man of knowledge, the real statesman, would by his art make many changes in his practice without regard to his writings, when he thought another course was better though it violated the rules he had written and sent to his absent subjects.
ΞΕ. καὶ μὴν τόν γε εἰδότα ἔφαμεν, τὸν ὄντως πολιτικόν, εἰ μεμνήμεθα, ποιήσειν τῇ τέχνῃ πολλὰ εἰς τὴν αὑτοῦ πρᾶξιν τῶν γραμμάτων οὐδὲν φροντίζοντα, ὁπόταν ἄλλʼ αὐτῷ βελτίω δόξῃ παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα ὑφʼ αὑτοῦ καὶ ἐπεσταλμένα ἀποῦσίν τισιν.
Y. Soc. Yes, we did say that.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. ἔφαμεν γάρ.
Str. But is it not true that any man or any number of men whatsoever who have written laws, if they undertake to make any change in those laws, thinking it is all improvement, are doing, to the best of their ability, the same thing which our true statesman does?
ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν ἀνὴρ ὁστισοῦν εἷς ἢ πλῆθος ὁτιοῦν, οἷς ἂν νόμοι κείμενοι τυγχάνωσι, παρὰ ταῦτα ὅτι ἂν ἐπιχειρήσωσι ποιεῖν ὡς βέλτιον ἕτερον ὄν, ταὐτὸν δρῶσι κατὰ δύναμιν ὅπερ ὁ ἀληθινὸς ἐκεῖνος;
Y. Soc. Certainly.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Str. If, then, they were to do this without science, however, imitate badly in every case; but if they were scientific, then it would no longer be imitation, but the actual perfect reality of which we spoke?
ΞΕ. ἆρʼ οὖν εἰ μὲν ἀνεπιστήμονες ὄντες τὸ τοιοῦτον δρῷεν, μιμεῖσθαι μὲν ἂν ἐπιχειροῖεν τὸ ἀληθές, μιμοῖντʼ ἂν μέντοι παγκάκως· εἰ δʼ ἔντεχνοι, τοῦτο οὐκ ἔστιν ἔτι μίμημα ἀλλʼ αὐτὸ τὸ ἀληθέστατον ἐκεῖνο;
Y. Soc. Yes, assuredly.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πάντως που.
Str. And yet we agreed definitely a while ago that no multitude is able to acquire any art whatsoever.
ΞΕ. καὶ μὴν ἔμπροσθέ γε ὡμολογημένον ἡμῖν κεῖται μηδὲν πλῆθος μηδʼ ἡντινοῦν δυνατὸν εἶναι λαβεῖν τέχνην.
Y. Soc. Yes, that is definitely agreed.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. κεῖται γὰρ οὖν.
Str. Then if there is a kingly art, neither the collective body of the wealthy nor the whole people could ever acquire this science of statesmanship.
ΞΕ. οὐκοῦν εἰ μὲν ἔστι βασιλική τις τέχνη, τὸ τῶν πλουσίων πλῆθος καὶ ὁ σύμπας δῆμος οὐκ ἄν ποτε λάβοι τὴν πολιτικὴν ταύτην ἐπιστήμην.
Y. Soc. No; certainly not.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ. πῶς γὰρ ἄν;
Str. Such states, then, it seems, if they are to imitate well, so far as possible, that true form of government— by a single ruler who rules with science—must never do anything in contravention of their existing written laws and ancestral customs.
ΞΕ. δεῖ δὴ τὰς τοιαύτας γε ὡς ἔοικε πολιτείας, εἰ μέλλουσι καλῶς τὴν ἀληθινὴν ἐκείνην τὴν τοῦ ἑνὸς μετὰ τέχνης ἄρχοντος πολιτείαν εἰς δύναμιν μιμήσεσθαι, μηδέποτε κειμένων αὐτοῖς τῶν νόμων μηδὲν ποιεῖν παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα καὶ πάτρια ἔθη.