1. The word was now with Critobulus, who continued thus: Well, I think you have told me quite enough about such passions as these, and when I examine myself I find, I think, that I have them fairly well under control; and therefore, if you will advise me what I should do to increase my estate, I don’t think those mistresses, as you call them, are likely to hinder me. So do not hesitate to give me any good advice you can: unless, indeed, you have made up your mind that we are rich enough already, Socrates, and think we have no need of more money?
1. ὁ οὖν Κριτόβουλος ἐκ τούτων ὧδέ πως εἶπεν· ἀλλὰ περὶ μὲν τῶν τοιούτων ἀρκούντως πάνυ μοι δοκῶ τὰ λεγόμενα ὑπὸ σοῦ ἀκηκοέναι· αὐτὸς δʼ ἐμαυτὸν ἐξετάζων δοκῶ μοι εὑρίσκειν ἐπιεικῶς τῶν τοιούτων ἐγκρατῆ ὄντα, ὥστʼ εἴ μοι συμβουλεύοις ὅ τι ἂν ποιῶν αὔξοιμι τὸν οἶκον, οὐκ ἄν μοι δοκῶ ὑπό γε τούτων ὧν σὺ δεσποινῶν καλεῖς κωλύεσθαι· ἀλλὰ θαρρῶν συμβούλευε ὅ τι ἔχεις ἀγαθόν· ἢ κατέγνωκας ἡμῶν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἱκανῶς πλουτεῖν καὶ οὐδὲν δοκοῦμέν σοι προσδεῖσθαι χρημάτων;
2. Oh, if you mean to include me, I certainly think I have no need of more money and am rich enough. But you seem to me to be quite poor, Critobulus, and at times, I assure you, I feel quite sorry for you.
2. οὔκουν ἔγωγε, ἔφη ὁ Σωκράτης, εἰ καὶ περὶ ἐμοῦ λέγεις, οὐδέν μοι δοκῶ προσδεῖσθαι χρημάτων, ἀλλʼ ἱκανῶς πλουτεῖν· σὺ μέντοι, ὦ Κριτόβουλε, πάνυ μοι δοκεῖς πένεσθαι, καὶ ναὶ μὰ Δίʼ ἔστιν ὅτε καὶ πάνυ οἰκτίρω σε ἐγώ.
3. And how much, pray, asked Critobulus, laughing, would your property fetch at a sale, do you suppose, Socrates, and how much would mine? Well, if I found a good buyer, I think the whole of my goods and chattels, including the house, might readily sell for five minae. Yours, I feel sure, would fetch more than a hundred times that sum.
3. καὶ ὁ Κριτόβουλος γελάσας εἶπε· καὶ πόσον ἂν πρὸς τῶν θεῶν οἴει, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔφη, εὑρεῖν τὰ σὰ κτήματα πωλούμενα, πόσον δὲ τὰ ἐμά; ἐγὼ μὲν οἶμαι, ἔφη ὁ Σωκράτης, εἰ ἀγαθοῦ ὠνητοῦ ἐπιτύχοιμι, εὑρεῖν ἄν μοι σὺν τῇ οἰκίᾳ καὶ τὰ ὄντα πάντα πάνυ ῥᾳδίως πέντε μνᾶς· τὰ μέντοι σὰ ἀκριβῶς οἶδα ὅτι πλέον ἂν εὕροι ἢ ἑκατονταπλασίονα τούτου.
4. And in spite of that estimate, you really think you have no need of money and pity me for my poverty? Yes, because my property is sufficient to satisfy my wants, but I don’t think you would have enough to keep up the style you are living in and to support your reputation, even if your fortune were three times what it is.
4. κᾆτα οὕτως ἐγνωκὼς σὺ μὲν οὐχ ἡγῇ προσδεῖσθαι χρημάτων, ἐμὲ δὲ οἰκτίρεις ἐπὶ τῇ πενίᾳ; τὰ μὲν γὰρ ἐμά, ἔφη, ἱκανά ἐστιν ἐμοὶ παρέχειν τὰ ἐμοὶ ἀρκοῦντα· εἰς δὲ τὸ σὸν σχῆμα ὃ σὺ περιβέβλησαι καὶ τὴν σὴν δόξαν, οὐδʼ εἰ τρὶς ὅσα νῦν κέκτησαι προσγένοιτό σοι, οὐδʼ ὣς ἂν ἱκανά μοι δοκεῖ εἶναί σοι.
5. How can that be? exclaimed Critobulus. Because, in the first place, explained Socrates, I notice that you are bound to offer many large sacrifices; else, I fancy, you would get into trouble with gods and men alike. Secondly, it is your duty to entertain many strangers, on a generous scale too. Thirdly, you have to give dinners and play the benefactor to the citizens, or you lose your following.
5. πῶς δὴ τοῦτʼ; ἔφη ὁ Κριτόβουλος. ἀπεφήνατο ὁ Σωκράτης· ὅτι πρῶτον μὲν ὁρῶ σοι ἀνάγκην οὖσαν θύειν πολλά τε καὶ μεγάλα, ἢ οὔτε θεοὺς οὔτε ἀνθρώπους οἶμαί σε ἂν ἀνασχέσθαι· ἔπειτα ξένους προσήκει σοι πολλοὺς δέχεσθαι, καὶ τούτους μεγαλοπρεπῶς· ἔπειτα δὲ πολίτας δειπνίζειν καὶ εὖ ποιεῖν, ἢ ἔρημον συμμάχων εἶναι.
6. Moreover, I observe that already the state is exacting heavy contributions from you: you must needs keep horses, pay for choruses and gymnastic competitions, and accept presidencies; and if war breaks out, I know they will require you to maintain a ship and pay taxes that will nearly crush you. Whenever you seem to fall short of what is expected of you, the Athenians will certainly punish you as though they had caught you robbing them.
6. ἔτι δὲ καὶ τὴν πόλιν αἰσθάνομαι τὰ μὲν ἤδη σοι προστάττουσαν μεγάλα τελεῖν, ἱπποτροφίας τε καὶ χορηγίας καὶ γυμνασιαρχίας καὶ προστατείας, ἂν δὲ δὴ πόλεμος γένηται, οἶδʼ ὅτι καὶ τριηραρχίας [;μισθοὺς]; καὶ εἰσφορὰς τοσαύτας σοι προστάξουσιν ὅσας σὺ οὐ ῥᾳδίως ὑποίσεις. ὅπου δʼ ἂν ἐνδεῶς δόξῃς τι τούτων ποιεῖν, οἶδʼ ὅτι σε τιμωρήσονται Ἀθηναῖοι οὐδὲν ἧττον ἢ εἰ τὰ αὑτῶν λάβοιεν κλέπτοντα.
7. Besides all this, I notice that you imagine yourself to be a rich man; you are indifferent to money, and yet go courting minions, as though the cost were nothing to you. And that is why I pity you, and fear that you may come to grief and find yourself reduced to penury.
7. πρὸς δὲ τούτοις ὁρῶ σε οἰόμενον πλουτεῖν, καὶ ἀμελῶς μὲν ἔχοντα πρὸς τὸ μηχανᾶσθαι χρήματα, παιδικοῖς δὲ πράγμασι προσέχοντα τὸν νοῦν, ὥσπερ ἐξόν σοι. ὧν ἕνεκα οἰκτίρω σε μή τι ἀνήκεστον κακὸν πάθῃς καὶ εἰς πολλὴν ἀπορίαν καταστῇς.
8. Now, if I ran short of money, no doubt you know as well as I do that I should not lack helpers who would need to contribute very little to fill my cup to overflowing. But your friends, though far better supplied with means to support their establishment than you, yet look to receive help from you.
8. καὶ ἐμοὶ μέν, εἴ τι καὶ προσδεηθείην, οἶδʼ ὅτι καὶ σὺ γιγνώσκεις ὡς εἰσὶν οἳ καὶ ἐπαρκέσειαν ἂν ὥστε πάνυ μικρὰ πορίσαντες κατακλύσειαν ἂν ἀφθονίᾳ τὴν ἐμὴν δίαιταν· οἱ δὲ σοὶ φίλοι πολὺ ἀρκοῦντα σοῦ μᾶλλον ἔχοντες τῇ ἑαυτῶν κατασκευῇ ἢ σὺ τῇ σῇ ὅμως ὡς παρὰ σοῦ ὠφελησόμενοι ἀποβλέπουσι.
9. I cannot dispute this, Socrates, said Critobulus, but it is time for you to take me in hand, and see that I don’t become a real object of pity. At this Socrates exclaimed, What, don’t you think it strange, Critobulus, that a little while ago, when I said I was rich, you laughed at me, as though I did not even know the meaning of riches, and would not cease until you had proved me wrong and made me own that my possessions were less than one-hundredth part of yours, and yet now you bid me take you in hand and see that you don’t become in literal truth a poor man?
9. καὶ ὁ Κριτόβουλος εἶπεν· ἐγὼ τούτοις, ὦ Σώκρατες, οὐκ ἔχω ἀντιλέγειν· ἀλλʼ ὥρα σοι προστατεύειν ἐμοῦ, ὅπως μὴ τῷ ὄντι οἰκτρὸς γένωμαι. ἀκούσας οὖν ὁ Σωκράτης εἶπε· καὶ οὐ θαυμαστὸν δοκεῖς, ὦ Κριτόβουλε, τοῦτο σαυτῷ ποιεῖν, ὅτι ὀλίγῳ μὲν πρόσθεν, ὅτε ἐγὼ ἔφην πλουτεῖν, ἐγέλασας ἐπʼ ἐμοὶ ὡς οὐδὲ εἰδότι ὅ τι εἴη πλοῦτος, καὶ πρότερον οὐκ ἐπαύσω πρὶν ἐξήλεγξάς με καὶ ὁμολογεῖν ἐποίησας μηδὲ ἑκατοστὸν μέρος τῶν σῶν κεκτῆσθαι, νῦν δὲ κελεύεις προστατεύειν μέ σου καὶ ἐπιμελεῖσθαι ὅπως ἂν μὴ παντάπασιν ἀληθῶς πένης γένοιο;
10. Well, Socrates, I see that you understand one process by which wealth is created—how to create a balance. So a man who saves on a small income can, I suppose, very easily show a large surplus with a large one.
10. ὁρῶ γάρ σε, ἔφη, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἕν τι πλουτηρὸν ἔργον ἐπιστάμενον περιουσίαν ποιεῖν. τὸν οὖν ἀπʼ ὀλίγων περιποιοῦντα ἐλπίζω ἀπὸ πολλῶν γʼ ἂν πάνυ ῥᾳδίως πολλὴν περιουσίαν ποιῆσαι.
11. Then don’t you remember saying just now in our conversation, when you wouldn’t give me leave to utter a syllable, that if a man doesn’t know how to manage horses, his horses are not wealth to him, nor his land, sheep, money or anything else, if he doesn’t know how to manage them? Now these are the sources from which income is derived: and how do you suppose that I can possibly know how to manage any of these things, seeing that I never yet possessed any one of them?
11. οὔκουν μέμνησαι ἀρτίως ἐν τῷ λόγῳ ὅτε οὐδʼ ἀναγρύζειν μοι ἐξουσίαν ἐποίησας, λέγων ὅτι τῷ μὴ ἐπισταμένῳ ἵπποις χρῆσθαι οὐκ εἴη χρήματα οἱ ἵπποι οὐδὲ ἡ γῆ οὐδὲ τὰ πρόβατα οὐδὲ ἀργύριον οὐδὲ ἄλλο οὐδὲ ἓν ὅτῳ τις μὴ ἐπίσταιτο χρῆσθαι; εἰσὶ μὲν οὖν αἱ πρόσοδοι ἀπὸ τῶν τοιούτων· ἐμὲ δὲ πῶς τινὶ τούτων οἴει ἂν ἐπιστηθῆναι χρῆσθαι, ᾧ τὴν ἀρχὴν οὐδὲν πώποτʼ ἐγένετο τούτων;
12. Still we held that, even if a man happens to have no wealth, there is such a thing as a science of household management. Then what reason is there why you should not know it? Exactly the same reason, of course, that a man would have for not knowing how to play on the flute if he had never possessed one himself and had never borrowed one to learn on.
12. ἀλλʼ ἐδόκει ἡμῖν, καὶ εἰ μὴ χρήματά τις τύχοι ἔχων, ὅμως εἶναί τις ἐπιστήμη οἰκονομίας. τί οὖν κωλύει καὶ σὲ ἐπίστασθαι; ὅπερ νὴ Δία καὶ αὐλεῖν ἂν κωλύσειεν ἄνθρωπον ἐπίστασθαι, εἰ μήτε αὐτὸς πώποτε κτήσαιτο αὐλοὺς μήτε ἄλλος αὐτῷ παράσχοι ἐν τοῖς αὑτοῦ μανθάνειν· οὕτω δὴ καὶ ἐμοὶ ἔχει περὶ τῆς οἰκονομίας.
13. That is just my case with regard to estate management; for never having possessed wealth myself, I have not had an opportunity of learning on an instrument of my own, and nobody has ever let me handle his, until you made your offer. Beginners, I fancy, are apt to spoil the lyres they learn on; and if I attempted to learn to manage estates by practising on yours, possibly I might spoil it entirely for you.
13. οὔτε γὰρ αὐτὸς ὄργανα χρήματα ἐκεκτήμην, ὥστε μανθάνειν, οὔτε ἄλλος πώποτέ μοι παρέσχε τὰ ἑαυτοῦ διοικεῖν ἀλλʼ ἢ σὺ νυνὶ ἐθέλεις παρέχειν. οἱ δὲ δήπου τὸ πρῶτον μανθάνοντες κιθαρίζειν καὶ τὰς λύρας λυμαίνονται· καὶ ἐγὼ δὴ εἰ ἐπιχειρήσαιμι ἐν τῷ σῷ οἴκῳ μανθάνειν οἰκονομεῖν, ἴσως ἂν καταλυμηναίμην ἄν σου τὸν οἶκον.
14. Ah, Socrates! rejoined Critobulus, I see you are eager to avoid giving me any help towards lightening the weight of my troublesome duties. Not at all, not at all, said Socrates, I am all eagerness to tell you all I know.
14. πρὸς ταῦτα ὁ Κριτόβουλος εἶπε· προθύμως γε, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀποφεύγειν μοι πειρᾷ μηδέν με συνωφελῆσαι εἰς τὸ ῥᾷον ὑποφέρειν τὰ ἐμοὶ ἀναγκαῖα πράγματα. οὐ μὰ Δίʼ, ἔφη ὁ Σωκράτης, οὐκ ἔγωγε, ἀλλʼ ὅσα ἔχω καὶ πάνυ προθύμως ἐξηγήσομαί σοι.
15. Suppose that you had come to me for fire, and I, having none by me, had taken you to some place where you could get it; you would not, I think, have found fault with me: or, if you had asked for water, and I, having none myself, had brought you to some other place for it, I feel sure that you would not have found fault with me for that either: or, suppose you wanted to learn music with me and I directed you to persons far more skilled in music than I am, who would be grateful to you for taking lessons with them, what fault could you find with me for doing so?
15. οἶμαι δʼ ἂν καὶ εἰ ἐπὶ πῦρ ἐλθόντος σου καὶ μὴ ὄντος παρʼ ἐμοί, εἰ ἄλλοσε ἡγησάμην ὁπόθεν σοι εἴη λαβεῖν, οὐκ ἂν ἐμέμφου μοι, καὶ εἰ ὕδωρ παρʼ ἐμοῦ αἰτοῦντί σοι αὐτὸς μὴ ἔχων ἄλλοσε καὶ ἐπὶ τοῦτο ἤγαγον, οἶδʼ ὅτι οὐδʼ ἂν τοῦτό μοι ἐμέμφου, καὶ εἰ βουλομένου μουσικὴν μαθεῖν σου παρʼ ἐμοῦ δείξαιμί σοι πολὺ δεινοτέρους ἐμοῦ περὶ μουσικὴν καί σοι χάριν ⟨ἂν⟩ εἰδότας, εἰ ἐθέλοις παρʼ αὐτῶν μανθάνειν, τί ἂν ἔτι μοι ταῦτα ποιοῦντι μέμφοιο;
16. None, if I were fair, Socrates. Well then, Critobulus, I will direct you to others far more skilled than I in the things you now seek to learn from me. I confess that I have made a point of finding out who are the greatest masters of various sciences to be found in Athens.
16. οὐδὲν ἂν δικαίως γε, ὦ Σώκρατες. ἐγὼ τοίνυν σοι δείξω, ὦ Κριτόβουλε, ὅσα νῦν λιπαρεῖς παρʼ ἐμοῦ μανθάνειν πολὺ ἄλλους ἐμοῦ δεινοτέρους [;τοὺς]; περὶ ταῦτα. ὁμολογῶ δὲ μεμεληκέναι μοι οἵτινες ἕκαστα ἐπιστημονέστατοί εἰσι τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει.
17. For observing once that the same pursuits lead in one case to great poverty and in another to great riches, I was filled with amazement, and thought it worth while to consider what this could mean. And on consideration I found that these things happen quite naturally.
17. καταμαθὼν γάρ ποτε ἀπὸ τῶν αὐτῶν ἔργων τοὺς μὲν πάνυ ἀπόρους ὄντας, τοὺς δὲ πάνυ πλουσίους, ἀπεθαύμασα, καὶ ἔδοξέ μοι ἄξιον εἶναι ἐπισκέψεως ὅ τι εἴη τοῦτο. καὶ ηὗρον ἐπισκοπῶν πάνυ οἰκείως ταῦτα γιγνόμενα.
18. For I saw that those who follow these pursuits carelessly suffer loss, and I discovered that those who devote themselves earnestly to them accomplish them more quickly, more easily and with more profit. I think that if you would elect to learn from these, you too with God’s favour would turn out a clever man of business.
18. τοὺς μὲν γὰρ εἰκῇ ταῦτα πράττοντας ζημιουμένους ἑώρων, τοὺς δὲ γνώμῃ συντεταμένῃ ἐπιμελουμένους καὶ θᾶττον καὶ ῥᾷον καὶ κερδαλεώτερον κατέγνων πράττοντας. παρʼ ὧν ἂν καὶ σὲ οἶμαι, εἰ βούλοιο, μαθόντα, εἴ σοι ὁ θεὸς μὴ ἐναντιοῖτο, πάνυ ἂν δεινὸν χρηματιστὴν γενέσθαι.