MN 36 · The Longer Discourse With Saccaka
MN 36 · Mahāsaccakasutta
So I have heard. At one time the Buddha was staying near Vesālī, at the Great Wood, in the hall with the peaked roof.
Evaṁ me sutaṁ— ekaṁ samayaṁ bhagavā vesāliyaṁ viharati mahāvane kūṭāgārasālāyaṁ.
Now at that time in the morning the Buddha, being properly dressed, took his bowl and robe, wishing to enter Vesālī for alms.
Tena kho pana samayena bhagavā pubbaṇhasamayaṁ sunivattho hoti pattacīvaramādāya vesāliṁ piṇḍāya pavisitukāmo.
Then as Saccaka, the son of Jain parents, was going for a walk he approached the hall with the peaked roof in the Great Wood. Venerable Ānanda saw him coming off in the distance, and said to the Buddha, “Sir, Saccaka, the son of Jain parents, is coming. He’s a controversialist who pretends to be astute and is deemed holy by many people. He wants to discredit the Buddha, the teaching, and the Saṅgha. Please, sir, sit for an hour out of sympathy.” The Buddha sat down on the seat spread out.
Atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto jaṅghāvihāraṁ anucaṅkamamāno anuvicaramāno yena mahāvanaṁ kūṭāgārasālā tenupasaṅkami. Addasā kho āyasmā ānando saccakaṁ nigaṇṭhaputtaṁ dūratova āgacchantaṁ. Disvāna bhagavantaṁ etadavoca: “ayaṁ, bhante, saccako nigaṇṭhaputto āgacchati bhassappavādako paṇḍitavādo sādhusammato bahujanassa. Eso kho, bhante, avaṇṇakāmo buddhassa, avaṇṇakāmo dhammassa, avaṇṇakāmo saṅghassa. Sādhu, bhante, bhagavā muhuttaṁ nisīdatu anukampaṁ upādāyā”ti. Nisīdi bhagavā paññatte āsane.
Then Saccaka went up to the Buddha, and exchanged greetings with him. When the greetings and polite conversation were over, he sat down to one side and said to the Buddha,
Atha kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavatā saddhiṁ sammodi, sammodanīyaṁ kathaṁ sāraṇīyaṁ vītisāretvā ekamantaṁ nisīdi. Ekamantaṁ nisinno kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavantaṁ etadavoca:
“Worthy Gotama, there are some ascetics and brahmins who live committed to the practice of developing physical endurance, without developing the mind. They suffer painful physical feelings. This happened to someone once. Their thighs became paralyzed, their heart burst, hot blood gushed from their mouth, and they went mad and lost their mind. Their mind was subject to the body, and the body had power over it. Why is that? Because their mind was not developed. There are some ascetics and brahmins who live committed to the practice of developing the mind, without developing physical endurance. They suffer painful mental feelings. This happened to someone once. Their thighs became paralyzed, their heart burst, hot blood gushed from their mouth, and they went mad and lost their mind. Their body was subject to the mind, and the mind had power over it. Why is that? Because their physical endurance was not developed. It occurs to me that The worthy Gotama’s disciples must live committed to the practice of developing the mind, without developing physical endurance.”
“Santi, bho gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā kāyabhāvanānuyogamanuyuttā viharanti, no cittabhāvanaṁ. Phusanti hi te, bho gotama, sārīrikaṁ dukkhaṁ vedanaṁ. Bhūtapubbaṁ, bho gotama, sārīrikāya dukkhāya vedanāya phuṭṭhassa sato ūrukkhambhopi nāma bhavissati, hadayampi nāma phalissati, uṇhampi lohitaṁ mukhato uggamissati, ummādampi pāpuṇissati cittakkhepaṁ. Tassa kho etaṁ, bho gotama, kāyanvayaṁ cittaṁ hoti, kāyassa vasena vattati. Taṁ kissa hetu? Abhāvitattā cittassa. Santi pana, bho gotama, eke samaṇabrāhmaṇā cittabhāvanānuyogamanuyuttā viharanti, no kāyabhāvanaṁ. Phusanti hi te, bho gotama, cetasikaṁ dukkhaṁ vedanaṁ. Bhūtapubbaṁ, bho gotama, cetasikāya dukkhāya vedanāya phuṭṭhassa sato ūrukkhambhopi nāma bhavissati, hadayampi nāma phalissati, uṇhampi lohitaṁ mukhato uggamissati, ummādampi pāpuṇissati cittakkhepaṁ. Tassa kho eso, bho gotama, cittanvayo kāyo hoti, cittassa vasena vattati. Taṁ kissa hetu? Abhāvitattā kāyassa. Tassa mayhaṁ, bho gotama, evaṁ hoti: ‘addhā bhoto gotamassa sāvakā cittabhāvanānuyogamanuyuttā viharanti, no kāyabhāvanan’”ti.
“But Aggivessana, what have you heard about the development of physical endurance?”
“Kinti pana te, aggivessana, kāyabhāvanā sutā”ti?
“Take, for example, Nanda Vaccha, Kisa Saṅkicca, and the bamboo-staffed ascetic Gosāla. They go naked, ignoring conventions. They lick their hands, and don’t come or wait when called. They don’t consent to food brought to them, or food prepared on their behalf, or an invitation for a meal. They don’t receive anything from a pot or bowl; or from someone who keeps sheep, or who has a weapon or a shovel in their home; or where a couple is eating; or where there is a woman who is pregnant, breastfeeding, or who lives with a man; or where there’s a hound waiting or flies buzzing. They accept no fish or meat or beer or wine, and drink no fermented gruel. They go to just one house for alms, taking just one mouthful, or two houses and two mouthfuls, up to seven houses and seven mouthfuls. They feed on one saucer a day, two saucers a day, up to seven saucers a day. They eat once a day, once every second day, up to once a week, and so on, even up to once a fortnight. They live committed to the practice of eating food at set intervals.”
“Seyyathidaṁ— nando vaccho, kiso saṅkicco, makkhali gosālo— etehi, bho gotama, acelakā muttācārā hatthāpalekhanā naehibhaddantikā natiṭṭhabhaddantikā na abhihaṭaṁ na uddissakataṁ na nimantanaṁ sādiyanti, te na kumbhimukhā paṭiggaṇhanti na kaḷopimukhā paṭiggaṇhanti na eḷakamantaraṁ na daṇḍamantaraṁ na musalamantaraṁ na dvinnaṁ bhuñjamānānaṁ na gabbhiniyā na pāyamānāya na purisantaragatāya na saṅkittīsu na yattha sā upaṭṭhito hoti na yattha makkhikā saṇḍasaṇḍacārinī, na macchaṁ na maṁsaṁ na suraṁ na merayaṁ na thusodakaṁ pivanti. Te ekāgārikā vā honti ekālopikā, dvāgārikā vā honti dvālopikā …pe… sattāgārikā vā honti sattālopikā. Ekissāpi dattiyā yāpenti, dvīhipi dattīhi yāpenti …pe… sattahipi dattīhi yāpenti. Ekāhikampi āhāraṁ āhārenti, dvīhikampi āhāraṁ āhārenti …pe… sattāhikampi āhāraṁ āhārenti. Iti evarūpaṁ addhamāsikampi pariyāyabhattabhojanānuyogamanuyuttā viharantī”ti.
“But Aggivessana, do they get by on so little?”
“Kiṁ pana te, aggivessana, tāvatakeneva yāpentī”ti?
“No, worthy Gotama. Sometimes they eat luxury fresh and cooked foods and drink a variety of luxury beverages. They gather their body’s strength, build it up, and get fat.”
“No hidaṁ, bho gotama. Appekadā, bho gotama, uḷārāni uḷārāni khādanīyāni khādanti, uḷārāni uḷārāni bhojanāni bhuñjanti, uḷārāni uḷārāni sāyanīyāni sāyanti, uḷārāni uḷārāni pānāni pivanti. Te imaṁ kāyaṁ balaṁ gāhenti nāma, brūhenti nāma, medenti nāmā”ti.
“What they earlier gave up, they later got back. That is how there is the increase and decrease of this body. But Aggivessana, what have you heard about development of the mind?” When Saccaka was questioned by the Buddha about development of the mind, he was stumped.
“Yaṁ kho te, aggivessana, purimaṁ pahāya pacchā upacinanti, evaṁ imassa kāyassa ācayāpacayo hoti. Kinti pana te, aggivessana, cittabhāvanā sutā”ti? Cittabhāvanāya kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavatā puṭṭho samāno na sampāyāsi.
So the Buddha said to Saccaka, “The development of physical endurance that you have described is not the legitimate development of physical endurance in the Noble One’s training. And since you don’t even understand the development of physical endurance, how can you possibly understand the development of the mind? Still, as to how someone is undeveloped in physical endurance and mind, and how someone is developed in physical endurance and mind, listen and apply your mind well, I will speak.”
Atha kho bhagavā saccakaṁ nigaṇṭhaputtaṁ etadavoca: “yāpi kho te esā, aggivessana, purimā kāyabhāvanā bhāsitā sāpi ariyassa vinaye no dhammikā kāyabhāvanā. Kāyabhāvanampi kho tvaṁ, aggivessana, na aññāsi, kuto pana tvaṁ cittabhāvanaṁ jānissasi? Api ca, aggivessana, yathā abhāvitakāyo ca hoti abhāvitacitto ca, bhāvitakāyo ca hoti bhāvitacitto ca. Taṁ suṇāhi, sādhukaṁ manasi karohi, bhāsissāmī”ti.
“Yes, worthy sir,” replied Saccaka. The Buddha said this:
“Evaṁ, bho”ti kho saccako nigaṇṭhaputto bhagavato paccassosi. Bhagavā etadavoca:
“And how is someone undeveloped in physical endurance and mind? Take an unlearned ordinary person who has a pleasant feeling. When they experience a pleasant feeling they become full of lust for it. Then that pleasant feeling ceases. And when it ceases, a painful feeling arises. When they suffer painful feeling, they sorrow and wail and lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion. Because their physical endurance is undeveloped, pleasant feelings occupy the mind. And because their mind is undeveloped, painful feelings occupy the mind. Anyone whose mind is occupied by both pleasant and painful feelings like this is undeveloped both in physical endurance and in mind.
“Kathañca, aggivessana, abhāvitakāyo ca hoti abhāvitacitto ca? Idha, aggivessana, assutavato puthujjanassa uppajjati sukhā vedanā. So sukhāya vedanāya phuṭṭho samāno sukhasārāgī ca hoti sukhasārāgitañca āpajjati. Tassa sā sukhā vedanā nirujjhati. Sukhāya vedanāya nirodhā uppajjati dukkhā vedanā. So dukkhāya vedanāya phuṭṭho samāno socati kilamati paridevati urattāḷiṁ kandati sammohaṁ āpajjati. Tassa kho esā, aggivessana, uppannāpi sukhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhati abhāvitattā kāyassa, uppannāpi dukkhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhati abhāvitattā cittassa. Yassa kassaci, aggivessana, evaṁ ubhatopakkhaṁ uppannāpi sukhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhati abhāvitattā kāyassa, uppannāpi dukkhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭhati abhāvitattā cittassa, evaṁ kho, aggivessana, abhāvitakāyo ca hoti abhāvitacitto ca.
And how is someone developed in physical endurance and mind? Take a learned noble disciple who has a pleasant feeling. When they experience a pleasant feeling they don’t become full of lust for it. Then that pleasant feeling ceases. And when it ceases, painful feeling arises. When they suffer painful feelings they don’t sorrow or wail or lament, beating their breast and falling into confusion. Because their physical endurance is developed, pleasant feelings don’t occupy the mind. And because their mind is developed, painful feelings don’t occupy the mind. Anyone whose mind is not occupied by both pleasant and painful feelings like this is developed both in physical endurance and in mind.”
Kathañca, aggivessana, bhāvitakāyo ca hoti bhāvitacitto ca? Idha, aggivessana, sutavato ariyasāvakassa uppajjati sukhā vedanā. So sukhāya vedanāya phuṭṭho samāno na sukhasārāgī ca hoti, na sukhasārāgitañca āpajjati. Tassa sā sukhā vedanā nirujjhati. Sukhāya vedanāya nirodhā uppajjati dukkhā vedanā. So dukkhāya vedanāya phuṭṭho samāno na socati na kilamati na paridevati na urattāḷiṁ kandati na sammohaṁ āpajjati. Tassa kho esā, aggivessana, uppannāpi sukhā vedanā cittaṁ na pariyādāya tiṭṭhati bhāvitattā kāyassa, uppannāpi dukkhā vedanā cittaṁ na pariyādāya tiṭṭhati bhāvitattā cittassa. Yassa kassaci, aggivessana, evaṁ ubhatopakkhaṁ uppannāpi sukhā vedanā cittaṁ na pariyādāya tiṭṭhati bhāvitattā kāyassa, uppannāpi dukkhā vedanā cittaṁ na pariyādāya tiṭṭhati bhāvitattā cittassa. Evaṁ kho, aggivessana, bhāvitakāyo ca hoti bhāvitacitto cā”ti.
“I am quite confident that the worthy Gotama is developed in physical endurance and in mind.”
“Evaṁ pasanno ahaṁ bhoto gotamassa. Bhavañhi gotamo bhāvitakāyo ca hoti bhāvitacitto cā”ti.
“Your words are clearly invasive and intrusive, Aggivessana. Nevertheless, I will answer you. Ever since I shaved off my hair and beard, dressed in ocher robes, and went forth from the lay life to homelessness, it has not been possible for any pleasant or painful feeling to occupy my mind.”
“Addhā kho te ayaṁ, aggivessana, āsajja upanīya vācā bhāsitā, api ca te ahaṁ byākarissāmi. Yato kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, kesamassuṁ ohāretvā kāsāyāni vatthāni acchādetvā agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajito, taṁ vata me uppannā vā sukhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya ṭhassati, uppannā vā dukkhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya ṭhassatīti netaṁ ṭhānaṁ vijjatī”ti.
“Worthy Gotama mustn’t have experienced the kind of pleasant or painful feelings that would occupy the mind.”
“Na hi nūna bhoto gotamassa uppajjati tathārūpā sukhā vedanā yathārūpā uppannā sukhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭheyya; na hi nūna bhoto gotamassa uppajjati tathārūpā dukkhā vedanā yathārūpā uppannā dukkhā vedanā cittaṁ pariyādāya tiṭṭheyyā”ti.
“How could I not, Aggivessana? Before my awakening—when I was still unawakened but intent on awakening—I thought: ‘Life at home is cramped and dirty, life gone forth is wide open. It’s not easy for someone living at home to lead the spiritual life utterly full and pure, like a polished shell. Why don’t I shave off my hair and beard, dress in ocher robes, and go forth from the lay life to homelessness?’
“Kiñhi no siyā, aggivessana? Idha me, aggivessana, pubbeva sambodhā anabhisambuddhassa bodhisattasseva sato etadahosi: ‘sambādho gharāvāso rajāpatho, abbhokāso pabbajjā. Nayidaṁ sukaraṁ agāraṁ ajjhāvasatā ekantaparipuṇṇaṁ ekantaparisuddhaṁ saṅkhalikhitaṁ brahmacariyaṁ carituṁ. Yannūnāhaṁ kesamassuṁ ohāretvā kāsāyāni vatthāni acchādetvā agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajeyyan’ti.
Some time later, while still with pristine black hair, blessed with youth, in the prime of life—though my mother and father wished otherwise, weeping with tearful faces—I shaved off my hair and beard, dressed in ocher robes, and went forth from the lay life to homelessness.
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, aparena samayena daharova samāno, susukāḷakeso bhadrena yobbanena samannāgato paṭhamena vayasā, akāmakānaṁ mātāpitūnaṁ assumukhānaṁ rudantānaṁ, kesamassuṁ ohāretvā kāsāyāni vatthāni acchādetvā agārasmā anagāriyaṁ pabbajiṁ.
Once I had gone forth I set out to discover what is skillful, seeking the supreme state of sublime peace. I approached Āḷāra Kālāma and said to him, ‘Reverend Kālāma, I wish to lead the spiritual life in this teaching and training.’
So evaṁ pabbajito samāno kiṅkusalagavesī anuttaraṁ santivarapadaṁ pariyesamāno yena āḷāro kālāmo tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā āḷāraṁ kālāmaṁ etadavocaṁ: ‘icchāmahaṁ, āvuso kālāma, imasmiṁ dhammavinaye brahmacariyaṁ caritun’ti.
Āḷāra Kālāma replied, ‘Stay, venerable. This teaching is such that a sensible person can soon realize their own denomination with their own insight and live having achieved it.’
Evaṁ vutte, aggivessana, āḷāro kālāmo maṁ etadavoca: ‘viharatāyasmā, tādiso ayaṁ dhammo yattha viññū puriso nacirasseva sakaṁ ācariyakaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja vihareyyā’ti.
I quickly memorized that teaching. As far as lip-recital and verbal repetition went, I spoke the doctrine of knowledge, the elder doctrine. I claimed to know and see, and so did others.
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, nacirasseva khippameva taṁ dhammaṁ pariyāpuṇiṁ. So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, tāvatakeneva oṭṭhapahatamattena lapitalāpanamattena ñāṇavādañca vadāmi theravādañca, ‘jānāmi passāmī’ti ca paṭijānāmi, ahañceva aññe ca.
Then it occurred to me, ‘It is not solely by mere faith that Āḷāra Kālāma declares: “I realize this teaching with my own insight, and live having achieved it.” Surely he meditates knowing and seeing this teaching.’
Tassa mayhaṁ, aggivessana, etadahosi: ‘na kho āḷāro kālāmo imaṁ dhammaṁ kevalaṁ saddhāmattakena sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmīti pavedeti, addhā āḷāro kālāmo imaṁ dhammaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ viharatī’ti.
So I approached Āḷāra Kālāma and said to him, ‘Reverend Kālāma, to what extent do you say you’ve realized this teaching with your own insight?’ When I said this, he declared the dimension of nothingness.
Atha khvāhaṁ, aggivessana, yena āḷāro kālāmo tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā āḷāraṁ kālāmaṁ etadavocaṁ: ‘kittāvatā no, āvuso kālāma, imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmīti pavedesī’ti? Evaṁ vutte, aggivessana, āḷāro kālāmo ākiñcaññāyatanaṁ pavedesi.
Then it occurred to me, ‘It’s not just Āḷāra Kālāma who has faith, energy, mindfulness, immersion, and wisdom; I too have these things. Why don’t I make an effort to realize the same teaching that Āḷāra Kālāma says he has realized with his own insight?’ I quickly realized that teaching with my own insight, and lived having achieved it.
Tassa mayhaṁ, aggivessana, etadahosi: ‘na kho āḷārasseva kālāmassa atthi saddhā, mayhampatthi saddhā; na kho āḷārasseva kālāmassa atthi vīriyaṁ, mayhampatthi vīriyaṁ; na kho āḷārasseva kālāmassa atthi sati, mayhampatthi sati; na kho āḷārasseva kālāmassa atthi samādhi, mayhampatthi samādhi; na kho āḷārasseva kālāmassa atthi paññā, mayhampatthi paññā; yannūnāhaṁ yaṁ dhammaṁ āḷāro kālāmo sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmīti pavedeti tassa dhammassa sacchikiriyāya padaheyyan’ti. So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, nacirasseva khippameva taṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja vihāsiṁ.
So I approached Āḷāra Kālāma and said to him, ‘Reverend Kālāma, is it up to this point that you realized this teaching with your own insight, and declare having achieved it?’
Atha khvāhaṁ, aggivessana, yena āḷāro kālāmo tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā āḷāraṁ kālāmaṁ etadavocaṁ: ‘ettāvatā no, āvuso kālāma, imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja pavedesī’ti?
‘I have, reverend.’
‘Ettāvatā kho ahaṁ, āvuso, imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja pavedemī’ti.
‘I too have realized this teaching with my own insight up to this point, and live having achieved it.’
‘Ahampi kho, āvuso, ettāvatā imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmī’ti.
‘We are fortunate, reverend, so very fortunate to see a venerable such as yourself as one of our spiritual companions! So the teaching that I’ve realized with my own insight, and declare having achieved it, you’ve realized with your own insight, and dwell having achieved it. The teaching that you’ve realized with your own insight, and dwell having achieved it, I’ve realized with my own insight, and declare having achieved it. So the teaching that I know, you know, and the teaching you know, I know. I am like you and you are like me. Come now, reverend! We should both lead this community together.’ And that is how my tutor Āḷāra Kālāma placed me, his pupil, on the same position as him, and honored me with high praise.
‘Lābhā no, āvuso, suladdhaṁ no, āvuso, ye mayaṁ āyasmantaṁ tādisaṁ sabrahmacāriṁ passāma. Iti yāhaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja pavedemi taṁ tvaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharasi; yaṁ tvaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharasi tamahaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja pavedemi. Iti yāhaṁ dhammaṁ jānāmi taṁ tvaṁ dhammaṁ jānāsi; yaṁ tvaṁ dhammaṁ jānāsi tamahaṁ dhammaṁ jānāmi. Iti yādiso ahaṁ tādiso tuvaṁ, yādiso tuvaṁ tādiso ahaṁ. Ehi dāni, āvuso, ubhova santā imaṁ gaṇaṁ pariharāmā’ti. Iti kho, aggivessana, āḷāro kālāmo ācariyo me samāno attano antevāsiṁ maṁ samānaṁ attanā samasamaṁ ṭhapesi, uḷārāya ca maṁ pūjāya pūjesi.
Then it occurred to me, ‘This teaching doesn’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. It only leads as far as rebirth in the dimension of nothingness.’ Realizing that this teaching was inadequate, I left disappointed.
Tassa mayhaṁ, aggivessana, etadahosi: ‘nāyaṁ dhammo nibbidāya na virāgāya na nirodhāya na upasamāya na abhiññāya na sambodhāya na nibbānāya saṁvattati, yāvadeva ākiñcaññāyatanūpapattiyā’ti. So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, taṁ dhammaṁ analaṅkaritvā tasmā dhammā nibbijja apakkamiṁ.
I set out to discover what is skillful, seeking the supreme state of sublime peace. I approached Uddaka son of Rāma and said to him, ‘Reverend, I wish to lead the spiritual life in this teaching and training.’
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, kiṅkusalagavesī anuttaraṁ santivarapadaṁ pariyesamāno yena udako rāmaputto tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā udakaṁ rāmaputtaṁ etadavocaṁ: ‘icchāmahaṁ, āvuso, imasmiṁ dhammavinaye brahmacariyaṁ caritun’ti.
Uddaka replied, ‘Stay, venerable. This teaching is such that a sensible person can soon realize their own denomination with their own insight and live having achieved it.’
Evaṁ vutte, aggivessana, udako rāmaputto maṁ etadavoca: ‘viharatāyasmā, tādiso ayaṁ dhammo yattha viññū puriso nacirasseva sakaṁ ācariyakaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja vihareyyā’ti.
I quickly memorized that teaching. As far as lip-recital and verbal repetition went, I spoke the doctrine of knowledge, the elder doctrine. I claimed to know and see, and so did others.
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, nacirasseva khippameva taṁ dhammaṁ pariyāpuṇiṁ. So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, tāvatakeneva oṭṭhapahatamattena lapitalāpanamattena ñāṇavādañca vadāmi theravādañca, ‘jānāmi passāmī’ti ca paṭijānāmi, ahañceva aññe ca.
Then it occurred to me, ‘It is not solely by mere faith that Rāma declared: “I realize this teaching with my own insight, and live having achieved it.” Surely he meditated knowing and seeing this teaching.’
Tassa mayhaṁ, aggivessana, etadahosi: ‘na kho rāmo imaṁ dhammaṁ kevalaṁ saddhāmattakena sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmīti pavedesi. Addhā rāmo imaṁ dhammaṁ jānaṁ passaṁ vihāsī’ti.
So I approached Uddaka son of Rāma and said to him, ‘Reverend, to what extent did Rāma say he’d realized this teaching with his own insight?’ When I said this, Uddaka son of Rāma declared the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.
Atha khvāhaṁ, aggivessana, yena udako rāmaputto tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā udakaṁ rāmaputtaṁ etadavocaṁ: ‘kittāvatā no āvuso rāmo imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmīti pavedesī’ti? Evaṁ vutte, aggivessana, udako rāmaputto nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṁ pavedesi.
Then it occurred to me, ‘It’s not just Rāma who had faith, energy, mindfulness, immersion, and wisdom; I too have these things. Why don’t I make an effort to realize the same teaching that Rāma said he had realized with his own insight?’ I quickly realized that teaching with my own insight, and lived having achieved it.
Tassa mayhaṁ, aggivessana, etadahosi: ‘na kho rāmasseva ahosi saddhā, mayhampatthi saddhā; na kho rāmasseva ahosi vīriyaṁ, mayhampatthi vīriyaṁ; na kho rāmasseva ahosi sati, mayhampatthi sati; na kho rāmasseva ahosi samādhi, mayhampatthi samādhi; na kho rāmasseva ahosi paññā, mayhampatthi paññā; yannūnāhaṁ yaṁ dhammaṁ rāmo sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmīti pavedesi tassa dhammassa sacchikiriyāya padaheyyan’ti. So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, nacirasseva khippameva taṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja vihāsiṁ.
So I approached Uddaka son of Rāma and said to him, ‘Reverend, had Rāma realized this teaching with his own insight up to this point, and declared having achieved it?’
Atha khvāhaṁ, aggivessana, yena udako rāmaputto tenupasaṅkamiṁ; upasaṅkamitvā udakaṁ rāmaputtaṁ etadavocaṁ: ‘ettāvatā no āvuso rāmo imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja pavedesī’ti?
‘He had, reverend.’
‘Ettāvatā kho āvuso rāmo imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja pavedesī’ti.
‘I too have realized this teaching with my own insight up to this point, and live having achieved it.’
‘Ahampi kho, āvuso, ettāvatā imaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharāmī’ti.
‘We are fortunate, reverend, so very fortunate to see a venerable such as yourself as one of our spiritual companions! So the teaching that Rāma had realized with his own insight, and declared having achieved it, you’ve realized with your own insight, and dwell having achieved it. The teaching that you’ve realized with your own insight, and dwell having achieved it, Rāma had realized with his own insight, and declared having achieved it. So the teaching that Rāma directly knew, you know, and the teaching you know, Rāma directly knew. Rāma was like you and you are like Rāma. Come now, reverend! You should lead this community.’ And that is how my spiritual companion Uddaka son of Rāma placed me in the position of a tutor and honored me with high praise.
‘Lābhā no, āvuso, suladdhaṁ no, āvuso, ye mayaṁ āyasmantaṁ tādisaṁ sabrahmacāriṁ passāma. Iti yaṁ dhammaṁ rāmo sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja pavedesi, taṁ tvaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharasi; yaṁ tvaṁ dhammaṁ sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja viharasi, taṁ dhammaṁ rāmo sayaṁ abhiññā sacchikatvā upasampajja pavedesi. Iti yaṁ dhammaṁ rāmo abhiññāsi taṁ tvaṁ dhammaṁ jānāsi; yaṁ tvaṁ dhammaṁ jānāsi taṁ dhammaṁ rāmo abhiññāsi. Iti yādiso rāmo ahosi tādiso tuvaṁ; yādiso tuvaṁ tādiso rāmo ahosi. Ehi dāni, āvuso, tuvaṁ imaṁ gaṇaṁ pariharā’ti. Iti kho, aggivessana, udako rāmaputto sabrahmacārī me samāno ācariyaṭṭhāne ca maṁ ṭhapesi, uḷārāya ca maṁ pūjāya pūjesi.
Then it occurred to me, ‘This teaching doesn’t lead to disillusionment, dispassion, cessation, peace, insight, awakening, and extinguishment. It only leads as far as rebirth in the dimension of neither perception nor non-perception.’ Realizing that this teaching was inadequate, I left disappointed.
Tassa mayhaṁ, aggivessana, etadahosi: ‘nāyaṁ dhammo nibbidāya na virāgāya na nirodhāya na upasamāya na abhiññāya na sambodhāya na nibbānāya saṁvattati, yāvadeva nevasaññānāsaññāyatanūpapattiyā’ti. So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, taṁ dhammaṁ analaṅkaritvā tasmā dhammā nibbijja apakkamiṁ.
I set out to discover what is skillful, seeking the supreme state of sublime peace. Traveling stage by stage in the Magadhan lands, I arrived at the town of Senā in Uruvelā. There I saw a delightful park, a lovely grove with a flowing river that was clean and charming, with smooth banks. And nearby was a village to resort to for alms. Then it occurred to me, ‘This park is truly delightful, a lovely grove with a flowing river that’s clean and charming, with smooth banks. And nearby there’s a village to resort to for alms. This is good enough for striving for a gentleman wanting to strive.’ So I sat down right there, thinking: ‘This is good enough for striving.’
So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, kiṅkusalagavesī anuttaraṁ santivarapadaṁ pariyesamāno magadhesu anupubbena cārikaṁ caramāno yena uruvelā senānigamo tadavasariṁ. Tatthaddasaṁ ramaṇīyaṁ bhūmibhāgaṁ, pāsādikañca vanasaṇḍaṁ, nadiñca sandantiṁ setakaṁ supatitthaṁ ramaṇīyaṁ, samantā ca gocaragāmaṁ. Tassa mayhaṁ, aggivessana, etadahosi: ‘ramaṇīyo vata bho bhūmibhāgo, pāsādiko ca vanasaṇḍo, nadī ca sandati setakā supatitthā ramaṇīyā, samantā ca gocaragāmo. Alaṁ vatidaṁ kulaputtassa padhānatthikassa padhānāyā’ti. So kho ahaṁ, aggivessana, tattheva nisīdiṁ ‘alamidaṁ padhānāyā’ti.
And then these three similes, which were neither supernaturally inspired, nor learned before in the past, occurred to me. Suppose there was a green, sappy log, and it was lying in water. Then a person comes along with a drill-stick, thinking to light a fire and produce heat. What do you think, Aggivessana? By drilling the stick against that green, sappy log lying in water, could they light a fire and produce heat?”
Apissumaṁ, aggivessana, tisso upamā paṭibhaṁsu anacchariyā pubbe assutapubbā. Seyyathāpi, aggivessana, allaṁ kaṭṭhaṁ sasnehaṁ udake nikkhittaṁ. Atha puriso āgaccheyya uttarāraṇiṁ ādāya: ‘aggiṁ abhinibbattessāmi, tejo pātukarissāmī’ti. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, api nu so puriso amuṁ allaṁ kaṭṭhaṁ sasnehaṁ, udake nikkhittaṁ, uttarāraṇiṁ ādāya abhimanthento aggiṁ abhinibbatteyya, tejo pātukareyyā”ti?
“No, worthy Gotama. Why is that? Because it’s a green, sappy log, and it’s lying in the water. That person will eventually get weary and frustrated.”
“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”. “Taṁ kissa hetu”? “Aduñhi, bho gotama, allaṁ kaṭṭhaṁ sasnehaṁ, tañca pana udake nikkhittaṁ. Yāvadeva ca pana so puriso kilamathassa vighātassa bhāgī assā”ti.
“In the same way, there are ascetics and brahmins who don’t live withdrawn in body and mind from sensual pleasures. They haven’t internally given up or stilled desire, affection, infatuation, thirst, and passion for sensual pleasures. Regardless of whether or not they suffer painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings due to exertion, they are incapable of knowledge and vision, of supreme awakening. This was the first example that occurred to me.
“Evameva kho, aggivessana, ye hi keci samaṇā vā brāhmaṇā vā kāyena ceva cittena ca kāmehi avūpakaṭṭhā viharanti, yo ca nesaṁ kāmesu kāmacchando kāmasneho kāmamucchā kāmapipāsā kāmapariḷāho, so ca ajjhattaṁ na suppahīno hoti, na suppaṭippassaddho, opakkamikā cepi te bhonto samaṇabrāhmaṇā dukkhā tibbā kharā kaṭukā vedanā vedayanti, abhabbāva te ñāṇāya dassanāya anuttarāya sambodhāya. No cepi te bhonto samaṇabrāhmaṇā opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kharā kaṭukā vedanā vedayanti, abhabbāva te ñāṇāya dassanāya anuttarāya sambodhāya. Ayaṁ kho maṁ, aggivessana, paṭhamā upamā paṭibhāsi anacchariyā pubbe assutapubbā.
Then a second example occurred to me. Suppose there was a green, sappy log, and it was lying on dry land far from the water. Then a person comes along with a drill-stick, thinking to light a fire and produce heat. What do you think, Aggivessana? By drilling the stick against that green, sappy log on dry land far from water, could they light a fire and produce heat?”
Aparāpi kho maṁ, aggivessana, dutiyā upamā paṭibhāsi anacchariyā pubbe assutapubbā. Seyyathāpi, aggivessana, allaṁ kaṭṭhaṁ sasnehaṁ, ārakā udakā thale nikkhittaṁ. Atha puriso āgaccheyya uttarāraṇiṁ ādāya: ‘aggiṁ abhinibbattessāmi, tejo pātukarissāmī’ti. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, api nu so puriso amuṁ allaṁ kaṭṭhaṁ sasnehaṁ, ārakā udakā thale nikkhittaṁ, uttarāraṇiṁ ādāya abhimanthento aggiṁ abhinibbatteyya tejo pātukareyyā”ti?
“No, worthy Gotama. Why not? Because it’s still a green, sappy log, despite the fact that it’s lying on dry land far from water. That person will eventually get weary and frustrated.”
“No hidaṁ, bho gotama”. “Taṁ kissa hetu”? “Aduñhi, bho gotama, allaṁ kaṭṭhaṁ sasnehaṁ, kiñcāpi ārakā udakā thale nikkhittaṁ. Yāvadeva ca pana so puriso kilamathassa vighātassa bhāgī assā”ti.
“In the same way, there are ascetics and brahmins who live withdrawn in body and mind from sensual pleasures. But they haven’t internally given up or stilled desire, affection, infatuation, thirst, and passion for sensual pleasures. Regardless of whether or not they suffer painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings due to exertion, they are incapable of knowledge and vision, of supreme awakening. This was the second example that occurred to me.
“Evameva kho, aggivessana, ye hi keci samaṇā vā brāhmaṇā vā kāyena ceva cittena ca kāmehi vūpakaṭṭhā viharanti, yo ca nesaṁ kāmesu kāmacchando kāmasneho kāmamucchā kāmapipāsā kāmapariḷāho so ca ajjhattaṁ na suppahīno hoti, na suppaṭippassaddho, opakkamikā cepi te bhonto samaṇabrāhmaṇā dukkhā tibbā kharā kaṭukā vedanā vedayanti, abhabbāva te ñāṇāya dassanāya anuttarāya sambodhāya. No cepi te bhonto samaṇabrāhmaṇā opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kharā kaṭukā vedanā vedayanti, abhabbāva te ñāṇāya dassanāya anuttarāya sambodhāya. Ayaṁ kho maṁ, aggivessana, dutiyā upamā paṭibhāsi anacchariyā pubbe assutapubbā
Then a third example occurred to me. Suppose there was a dried up, withered log, and it was lying on dry land far from the water. Then a person comes along with a drill-stick, thinking to light a fire and produce heat. What do you think, Aggivessana? By drilling the stick against that dried up, withered log on dry land far from water, could they light a fire and produce heat?”
Aparāpi kho maṁ, aggivessana, tatiyā upamā paṭibhāsi anacchariyā pubbe assutapubbā. Seyyathāpi, aggivessana, sukkhaṁ kaṭṭhaṁ koḷāpaṁ, ārakā udakā thale nikkhittaṁ. Atha puriso āgaccheyya uttarāraṇiṁ ādāya: ‘aggiṁ abhinibbattessāmi, tejo pātukarissāmī’ti. Taṁ kiṁ maññasi, aggivessana, api nu so puriso amuṁ sukkhaṁ kaṭṭhaṁ koḷāpaṁ, ārakā udakā thale nikkhittaṁ, uttarāraṇiṁ ādāya abhimanthento aggiṁ abhinibbatteyya, tejo pātukareyyā”ti?
“Yes, worthy Gotama. Why is that? Because it’s a dried up, withered log, and it’s lying on dry land far from water.”
“Evaṁ, bho gotama”. “Taṁ kissa hetu”? “Aduñhi, bho gotama, sukkhaṁ kaṭṭhaṁ koḷāpaṁ, tañca pana ārakā udakā thale nikkhittan”ti.
“In the same way, there are ascetics and brahmins who live withdrawn in body and mind from sensual pleasures. And they have internally given up and stilled desire, affection, infatuation, thirst, and passion for sensual pleasures. Regardless of whether or not they suffer painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings due to exertion, they are capable of knowledge and vision, of supreme awakening. This was the third example that occurred to me. These are the three similes, which were neither supernaturally inspired, nor learned before in the past, that occurred to me.
“Evameva kho, aggivessana, ye hi keci samaṇā vā brāhmaṇā vā kāyena ceva cittena ca kāmehi vūpakaṭṭhā viharanti, yo ca nesaṁ kāmesu kāmacchando kāmasneho kāmamucchā kāmapipāsā kāmapariḷāho, so ca ajjhattaṁ suppahīno hoti suppaṭippassaddho, opakkamikā cepi te bhonto samaṇabrāhmaṇā dukkhā tibbā kharā kaṭukā vedanā vedayanti, bhabbāva te ñāṇāya dassanāya anuttarāya sambodhāya. No cepi te bhonto samaṇabrāhmaṇā opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kharā kaṭukā vedanā vedayanti, bhabbāva te ñāṇāya dassanāya anuttarāya sambodhāya. Ayaṁ kho maṁ, aggivessana, tatiyā upamā paṭibhāsi anacchariyā pubbe assutapubbā. Imā kho maṁ, aggivessana, tisso upamā paṭibhaṁsu anacchariyā pubbe assutapubbā.