832b. Be it so: now tell us the second cause.Ath. Do you think that I am delaying to do so because I am at a loss?Meg. No; but we think that, owing to a sort of hatred against the character you describe, you are castigating it more severely than is required by the argument now on hand.Ath. Your rebuke is just, Strangers; you want, it seems, to hear what comes next.Clin. Only say on.Ath. There lies a cause, as I affirm, in those non-polities which I have often mentioned in our previous discourse,—namely, democracy, oligarchy, and tyranny.
832b. ἔστω· τὴν δὲ δὴ δευτέραν λέγε.ΑΘ. μῶν οὐ λέγειν ἀλλὰ διατρίβειν δοκῶ διʼ ἀπορίαν;ΚΛ. οὔκ, ἀλλὰ οἷον μισῶν δοκεῖς ἡμῖν κολάζειν τὸ τοιοῦτον ἦθος μᾶλλον τοῦ δέοντος τῷ παραπεπτωκότι λόγῳ.ΑΘ. κάλλιστα, ὦ ξένοι, ἐπεπλήξατε· καὶ τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο ἀκούοιτʼ ἄν, ὡς ἔοικε.ΚΛ. λέγε μόνον.ΑΘ. τὰς οὐ πολιτείας ἔγωγε αἰτίας εἶναί φημι ἃς πολλάκις εἴρηκα ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν λόγοις, δημοκρατίαν καὶ ὀλιγαρχίαν καὶ τυραννίδα.
832c. For none of these is a polity, but the truest name for them all would be “faction-State”; for none of them is a form of voluntary rule over willing subjects, but a voluntary rule over unwilling subjects accompanied always by some kind of force; and the ruler, through fear of the subject, will never voluntarily allow him to become noble or wealthy or strong or brave or in any way warlike. These, then, are the two main causes of nearly everything, and certainly of the conditions we described.
832c. τούτων γὰρ δὴ πολιτεία μὲν οὐδεμία, στασιωτεῖαι δὲ πᾶσαι λέγοιντʼ ἂν ὀρθότατα· ἑκόντων γὰρ ἑκοῦσα οὐδεμία, ἀλλʼ ἀκόντων ἑκοῦσα ἄρχει σὺν ἀεί τινι βίᾳ, φοβούμενος δὲ ἄρχων ἀρχόμενον οὔτε καλὸν οὔτε πλούσιον οὔτε ἰσχυρὸν οὔτʼ ἀνδρεῖον οὔτε τὸ παράπαν πολεμικὸν ἑκὼν ἐάσει γίγνεσθαί ποτε. ταῦτʼ οὖν ἐστι τὰ δύο πάντων μὲν σμικροῦ διαφερόντως αἴτια, τούτων δʼ οὖν ὄντως διαφέρει. τὸ δὲ τῆς νῦν πολιτείας, ἣν νομοθετούμενοι λέγομεν, ἐκπέφευγεν ἀμφότερα·
832d. The polity, however, for which we are now legislating has escaped both these causes; for not only does it enjoy a great amount of leisure, but the citizens also are free from one another’s domination, and as a consequence of these laws of ours they will be the least likely of men to be money-lovers. Hence it is both natural and logical that of all existing polities this type alone should welcome the system above described, which combines military schooling with sport, when we have rightly completed that description.
832d. σχολήν τε γὰρ ἄγει που μεγίστην, ἐλεύθεροί τε ἀπʼ ἀλλήλων εἰσί, φιλοχρήματοι δὲ ἥκιστʼ ἄν, οἶμαι, γίγνοιντʼ ἂν ἐκ τούτων τῶν νόμων, ὥστʼ εἰκότως ἅμα καὶ κατὰ λόγον ἡ τοιαύτη κατάστασις πολιτείας μόνη δέξαιτʼ ἂν τῶν νῦν τὴν διαπερανθεῖσαν παιδείαν τε ἅμα καὶ παιδιὰν πολεμικήν, ἀποτελεσθεῖσαν ὀρθῶς τῷ λόγῳ.
Clin. Very good.
ΚΛ. καλῶς.
Ath. The next step, then, is to remind ourselves, with regard to all gymnastic contests, that all such as afford training for war should be instituted, and should have prizes assigned to them, but all that do not do so must be set aside.
ΑΘ. ἆρʼ οὖν οὐ τούτοις ἐφεξῆς ἐστιν μνησθῆναί ποτε περὶ ἁπάντων τῶν ἀγώνων τῶν γυμνικῶν, ὡς ὅσα μὲν αὐτῶν πρὸς πόλεμόν ἐστιν ἀγωνίσματα ἐπιτηδευτέον καὶ θετέον ἆθλα νικητήρια, ὅσα δὲ μή, χαίρειν ἐατέον;
832e. What these contests consist in, it will be well to have described and ordained at the beginning. First, then, should we not ordain contests in running and speed in general?
832e. ἃ δʼ ἔστιν, ἐξ ἀρχῆς ἄμεινον ῥηθῆναί τε καὶ νομοθετηθῆναι. καὶ πρῶτον μὲν τὰ περὶ δρόμον καὶ τάχος ὅλως ἆρʼ οὐ θετέον;
Clin. We should.
ΚΛ. θετέον.
833. Ath. Most important of all things for war is, no doubt, general activity of the body, of hands as well as feet—activity of foot for flight and pursuit, and of hand for the stand-up fighting at close quarters which calls for sturdiness and strength.
833. ΑΘ. ἔστι γοῦν πάντων πολεμικώτατον ἡ σώματος ὀξύτης πάντως, ἡ μὲν ἀπὸ τῶν ποδῶν, ἡ δὲ καὶ ἀπὸ τῶν χειρῶν·
833a. Clin. No doubt.Ath. Yet, surely, neither of these is of the greatest service when it lacks weapons.Clin. Certainly not.Ath. So at our contests the herald (as is now the practice) shall summon first the short-distance runner: he shall enter fully armed; and for an unarmed competitor we shall offer no prize. First, then, there shall enter the man who, with his arms, is to run the furlong,—second, the runner of the quarter-mile,— third, the half-miler,—fourth, the runner of the three-quarters,—and fifth, that runner whom we shall despatch first, fully armed, to run a distance of four miles to a temple of Ares and back; he shall be in heavier armor, and be called a hoplite, and he shall run over a smooth course, while his antagonist shall be dressed in the full equipment of an archer, and shall run a course of twelve miles over hills and varied country to a temple of Apollo and Artemis. And having thus set up the contests, we shall await the return of these runners, and to the winner of each race we shall award the prize.
833a. φυγεῖν μὲν καὶ ἑλεῖν ἡ τῶν ποδῶν, ἡ δʼ ἐν ταῖς συμπλοκαῖς μάχη καὶ σύστασις ἰσχύος καὶ ῥώμης δεομένη.ΚΛ. τί μήν;ΑΘ. οὐ μὴν χωρίς γε ὅπλων οὐδετέρα τὴν μεγίστην ἔχει χρείαν.ΚΛ. πῶς γὰρ ἄν;ΑΘ. σταδιοδρόμον δὴ πρῶτον ὁ κῆρυξ ἡμῖν, καθάπερ νῦν, ἐν τοῖς ἀγῶσι παρακαλεῖ, ὁ δὲ εἴσεισιν ὅπλα ἔχων· ψιλῷ δὲ ἆθλα οὐ θήσομεν ἀγωνιστῇ. πρῶτος δὲ εἴσεισιν ὁ τὸ στάδιον ἁμιλλησόμενος σὺν τοῖς ὅπλοις, δεύτερος δὲ ὁ τὸν δίαυλον, καὶ τρίτος ὁ τὸν ἐφίππιον, καὶ δὴ καὶ τέταρτος ὁ τὸν δόλιχον, καὶ πέμπτος δὲ ὃν ἀφήσομεν πρῶτον ὡπλισμένον, ἑξήκοντα μὲν σταδίων μῆκος πρὸς ἱερὸν Ἄρεώς τι καὶ πάλιν, βαρύτερον, ὁπλίτην ἐπονομάζοντες, λειοτέρας ὁδοῦ διαμιλλώμενον, τὸν δὲ ἄλλον, τοξότην πᾶσαν τοξικὴν ἔχοντα στολήν, σταδίων δὲ ἑκατὸν πρὸς Ἀπόλλωνός τε καὶ Ἀρτέμιδος ἱερὸν τὴν διʼ ὀρῶν τε καὶ παντοίας χώρας ἁμιλλώμενον·
833c. Clin. Very right.Ath. Let us plan these contests in three divisions—one for children, one for youths, and one for men. We shall ordain that the course for the youths’ races shall be two-thirds of the full course, and that for children one-half, when they compete either as archers or as hoplites. In the case of females, we shall ordain races of a furlong, a quarter-mile, a half-mile, and a three-quarters for girls under the age of puberty, who shall be stripped, and shall race on the course itself; and girls over thirteen shall continue to take part until married, up to the age of twenty at most, or at least eighteen; but these, when they come forward and compete in these races, must be clad in decent apparel.
833c. καὶ τιθέντες τὸν ἀγῶνα μενοῦμεν τούτους, ἕως ἂν ἔλθωσι, καὶ τῷ νικῶντι τὰ νικητήρια δώσομεν ἑκάστων.ΚΛ. ὀρθῶς.ΑΘ. τριττὰ δὴ ταῦτα ἀθλήματα διανοηθῶμεν, ἓν μὲν παιδικόν, ἓν δὲ ἀγενείων, ἓν δὲ ἀνδρῶν· καὶ τοῖς μὲν τῶν ἀγενείων τὰ δύο τῶν τριῶν τοῦ μήκους τοῦ δρόμου θήσομεν, τοῖς δὲ παισὶ τὰ τούτων ἡμίσεα, τοξόταις τε καὶ ὁπλίταις ἁμιλλωμένοις, γυναιξὶν δέ, κόραις μὲν ἀνήβοις γυμναῖς στάδιον καὶ δίαυλον καὶ ἐφίππιον καὶ δόλιχον, ἐν αὐτῷ τῷ δρόμῳ ἁμιλλωμέναις, ταῖς δὲ τριακαιδεκέτεσι μέχρι γάμου μενούσαις κοινωνίας μὴ μακρότερον εἴκοσι ἐτῶν μηδʼ ἔλαττον ὀκτωκαίδεκα·
833d. Let such, then, be the rules concerning races for men and women. As to trials of strength, instead of wrestling and the other “strong-man” events now in vogue, we shall ordain fencing in armor, both in solo-contests and in team-competitions of anything from two to ten a side.
833d. πρεπούσῃ δὲ στολῇ ταύτας ἐσταλμένας καταβατέον ἐπὶ τὴν ἅμιλλαν τούτων τῶν δρόμων. καὶ τὰ μὲν περὶ δρόμους ἀνδράσι τε καὶ γυναιξὶ ταῦτα ἔστω· τὰ δὲ κατʼ ἰσχύν, ἀντὶ μὲν πάλης καὶ τῶν τοιούτων, τὰ νῦν ὅσα βαρέα, τὴν ἐν τοῖς ὅπλοις μάχην, ἕνα τε πρὸς ἕνα διαμαχομένους καὶ δύο πρὸς δύο, καὶ μέχρι δέκα πρὸς δέκα διαμιλλωμένους ἀλλήλοις.
834. Ath. As regards the hits which a winner is to make or avoid, and how many points he must score,—just as now in the case of wrestling, those who deal with this art have fixed by law the points of good wrestling and bad, so likewise we must summon the experts in fencing under arms, and bid them help us to draw up laws by which to decide the proper winner in such fights, what he must do and what he must avoid,—and similarly the rules for determining the loser.
834. ΑΘ.ἃ δὲ τὸν μὴ παθόντα ἢ ποιήσαντα δεῖ νικᾶν καὶ εἰς ὁπόσα, καθάπερ νῦν ἐν τῇ πάλῃ διενομοθετήσαντο οἱ περὶ τὴν πάλην αὐτὴν τί τοῦ καλῶς παλαίοντος ἔργον καὶ μὴ καλῶς, ταὐτὸν δὴ καὶ τοὺς περὶ ὁπλομαχίαν ἄκρους παρακαλοῦντας, χρὴ τούτους συννομοθετεῖν κελεύειν τίς νικᾶν ἄρα δίκαιος περὶ ταύτας αὖ τὰς μάχας, ὅτι μὴ παθὼν ἢ δράσας, καὶ τὸν ἡττώμενον ὡσαύτως ἥτις διακρίνει τάξις.
834a. For females also, up to the age of marriage, the same laws shall be laid down. And in the place of the pancratium we must establish a general tourney for peltasts, who shall compete with bows, targes, javelins, and stones flung either by hand or by sling; and for these, too, we shall prescribe laws for assigning the rewards and prizes to the man who best conforms to the rules governing such contests. After these, the next thing to ordain will be horse-racing.
834a. ταὐτὰ δὲ καὶ περὶ τῶν θηλειῶν ἔστω νομοθετούμενα τῶν μέχρι γάμου. πελταστικὴν δὲ ὅλην ἀντιστήσαντας δεῖ τῇ τοῦ παγκρατίου μάχῃ, τόξοις καὶ πέλταις καὶ ἀκοντίοις καὶ λίθῳ ἐκ χειρός τε καὶ σφενδόναις ἁμιλλωμένων, διαθεμένους αὖ περὶ τούτων νόμους, τῷ κάλλιστα ἀποδιδόντι τὰ περὶ ταῦτα νόμιμα τὰ γέρα καὶ τὰς νίκας διανέμειν. τὸ δὲ μετὰ ταῦτα ἵππων δὴ περὶ ἀγῶνος γίγνοιτο ἑξῆς ἂν νομοθετούμενα·
834b. Here, in a country like Crete, there is not much need of horses—not in great numbers,—so that inevitably less attention is paid either to the rearing or the racing of horses. As to chariots, we have no one who keeps them, nor is anyone here likely to cherish any great ambition respecting them, so that to establish contests for them would run counter to native custom, and would not only seem, but be, a foolish act. If, however, we establish prizes for races of riding-horses— both for young colts, and for three-year-olds, and for those of full age—we shall be adapting the sport of horse-racing to the character of the country.
834b. ἵππων δὲ ἡμῖν χρεία μὲν οὔτε τις πολλῶν οὔτε πολλή, κατά γε δὴ Κρήτην, ὥστε ἀναγκαῖον καὶ τὰς σπουδὰς ἐλάττους γίγνεσθαι τάς τε ἐν τῇ τροφῇ καὶ τὰς περὶ ἀγωνίαν αὐτῶν. ἅρματος μὲν οὖν καὶ τὸ παράπαν οὔτε τις τροφεὺς ἡμῖν ἐστιν οὔτε τις φιλοτιμία πρὸς ταῦτα οὐδενὶ γίγνοιτʼ ἂν λόγον ἔχουσα, ὥστε τούτου μὲν ἀγωνιστάς, οὐκ ἐπιχώριον, ἔσται τιθέντας νοῦν μήτε ἔχειν μήτε δοκεῖν κεκτῆσθαι·
834c. Of these horsemen there shall be established by law a competitive contest, and the phylarchs and hipparchs shall act as public judges both of all the races and of the armed competitors. For unarmed competitors we should be wrong in establishing prizes, either here or in the gymnastic sports.
834c. μονίπποις δὲ ἆθλα τιθέντες, πώλοις τε ἀβόλοις καὶ τελείων τε καὶ ἀβόλων τοῖς μέσοις καὶ αὐτοῖς δὴ τοῖς τέλος ἔχουσι, κατὰ φύσιν τῆς χώρας ἂν τὴν ἱππικὴν παιδιὰν ἀποδιδοῖμεν. ἔστω δὴ τούτων τε αὐτῶν κατὰ νόμον ἅμιλλά τε καὶ φιλονικία, φυλάρχοις τε καὶ ἱππάρχοις δεδομένη κοινὴ κρίσις ἁπάντων τῶν τε δρόμων αὐτῶν καὶ τῶν καταβαινόντων μεθʼ ὅπλων· ψιλοῖς δὲ ὅπλων οὔτʼ ἐν τοῖς γυμνικοῖς οὔτε ἐνταῦθα τιθέντες ἀγωνίας ὀρθῶς ἂν νομοθετοῖμεν.
834d. And for a Cretan there is credit in being a mounted archer or javelin-man, so we shall have contests and matches of a sportive kind between these also. As to women,—it is not worth while to make compulsory laws and rules about their taking part in such sports; but if, as a result of earlier training which has grown into a habit, their nature allows, and does not forbid, girls or maidens to take part, let them do so without blame. So now at length we have reached the end both of competition and instruction in gymnastic, so far as concerns our education by means of contests and of daily teaching.
834d. τοξότης δὲ ἀφʼ ἵππων Κρὴς οὐκ ἄχρηστος, οὐδʼ ἀκοντιστής, ὥστε ἔστω καὶ τούτων παιδιᾶς χάριν ἔρις τε καὶ ἀγωνία. θηλείας δὲ περὶ τούτων νόμοις μὲν καὶ ἐπιτάξεσιν οὐκ ἄξια βιάζεσθαι τῆς κοινωνίας· ἐὰν δὲ ἐξ αὐτῶν τῶν ἔμπροσθεν παιδευμάτων εἰς ἔθος ἰόντων ἡ φύσις ἐνδέχηται καὶ μὴ δυσχεραίνῃ παῖδας ἢ παρθένους κοινωνεῖν, ἐᾶν καὶ μὴ ψέγειν.ἀγωνία δὴ νῦν ἤδη καὶ μάθησις γυμναστικῆς, ὅσα τε ἐν ἀγῶσιν καὶ ὅσα καθʼ ἡμέραν ⟨ἐν⟩ διδασκάλων ἐκπονούμεθα, πάντως ἤδη πέρας ἔχει.
834e. Most of our account of music has likewise been completed; the regulations about rhapsodes, however, and their retinue, and the choral contests which must accompany festivals are matters to be arranged after the gods and demi-gods have had their months, days and years assigned to them; then it will be seen whether they should be biennial fixtures or quadrennial, or what mode and manner of arranging them the gods may suggest.
834e. καὶ δὴ καὶ μουσικῆς τὰ μὲν πλεῖστα ὡσαύτως διαπεπέρανται, τὰ δὲ ῥαψῳδῶν καὶ τῶν τούτοις ἑπομένων, καὶ ὅσαι ἐν ἑορταῖς ἅμιλλαι χορῶν ἀναγκαῖαι γίγνεσθαι, ταχθέντων τοῖς θεοῖς τε καὶ τοῖς μετὰ θεῶν μηνῶν καὶ ἡμερῶν καὶ ἐνιαυτῶν, κοσμηθήσονται τότε, εἴτε τριετηρίδες εἴτε αὖ καὶ διὰ πέμπτων ἐτῶν, εἴθʼ ὅπῃ καὶ ὅπως ἔννοιαν διδόντων τῶν θεῶν τάξεως πέρι διανεμηθῶσιν·
835. Ath. Then also, one expects, the musical contests will be held in sections, as arranged by the Masters of the Games and the Educator of the youth and the Law-wardens, meeting for this special purpose and acting in person as legislators to determine what persons, and when and with whom, are to frame the contests for all the choruses and choristry. Of what character each of these ought to be in respect of words, songs and tunes, blended with rhythm and dance, has frequently been stated by the original lawgiver; the secondary lawgivers should follow him in their enactments, and they should arrange the contests at convenient times to suit the several sacrifices, and thus appoint festivals for the State to observe.
835. ΑΘ.τότε καὶ τοὺς μουσικῆς ἀγῶνας χρὴ προσδοκᾶν κατὰ μέρος ἀγωνιεῖσθαι ταχθέντας ὑπό τε ἀθλοθετῶν καὶ τοῦ παιδευτοῦ τῶν νέων καὶ τῶν νομοφυλάκων, εἰς κοινὸν περὶ αὐτῶν τούτων συνελθόντων καὶ γενομένων νομοθετῶν αὐτῶν, τοῦ τε πότε καὶ τίνες καὶ μετὰ τίνων τοὺς ἀγῶνας ποιήσονται περὶ ἁπάντων χορῶν καὶ χορείας. οἷα δὲ ἕκαστα αὐτῶν εἶναι δεῖ κατὰ λόγον καὶ κατʼ ᾠδὰς καὶ καθʼ ἁρμονίας ῥυθμοῖς κραθείσας καὶ ὀρχήσεσι, πολλάκις εἴρηται τῷ πρώτῳ νομοθέτῃ, καθʼ ἃ τοὺς δευτέρους δεῖ μεταδιώκοντας νομοθετεῖν, καὶ τοὺς ἀγῶνας πρεπόντως ἑκάστοις θύμασιν ἐν χρόνοις προσήκουσι νείμαντας, ἑορτὰς ἀποδοῦναι τῇ πόλει ἑορτάζειν.
835b. Now as to these and the like matters, it is by no means hard to perceive how they should be given legal regulation, nor indeed would a shifting of their positions cause much gain or loss to the State.
835b. ταῦτα μὲν οὖν καὶ ἄλλα τοιαῦτα οὔτε χαλεπὸν γνῶναι τίνα τρόπον χρὴ τάξεως ἐννόμου λαγχάνειν, οὐδʼ αὖ μετατιθέμενα ἔνθα ἢ ἔνθα μέγα τῇ πόλει κέρδος ἢ ζημίαν ἂν φέροι·
835c. But the things which do make no small difference, and of which it is hard to persuade men—these form a task especially for God (were it possible that orders should come from him): as it is, they are likely to require a bold man who, valuing candor above all else, will declare what he deems best for city and citizens, and in the midst of corrupted souls will enjoin what is fitting and in keeping with all the constitution, and gainsay the mightiest lusts, acting alone by himself with no man to help him save, as his solitary leader, Reason.
835c. ἃ δὲ μὴ σμικρὸν διαφέρει, πείθειν τε χαλεπόν, θεοῦ μὲν μάλιστα ἔργον, εἴ πως οἷόν τε ἦν ἐπιτάξεις αὐτὰς παρʼ ἐκείνου γίγνεσθαι, νῦν δὲ ἀνθρώπου τολμηροῦ κινδυνεύει δεῖσθαί τινος, ὃς παρρησίαν διαφερόντως τιμῶν ἐρεῖ τὰ δοκοῦντα ἄριστʼ εἶναι πόλει καὶ πολίταις, ἐν ψυχαῖς διεφθαρμέναις τὸ πρέπον καὶ ἑπόμενον πάσῃ τῇ πολιτείᾳ τάττων, ἐναντία λέγων ταῖς μεγίσταισιν ἐπιθυμίαις καὶ οὐκ ἔχων βοηθὸν ἄνθρωπον οὐδένα, λόγῳ ἑπόμενος μόνῳ μόνος.
835d. Clin. What is it we are reasoning about now, Stranger? For we are still in the dark.
835d. ΚΛ. τίνʼ αὖ νῦν, ὦ ξένε, λόγον λέγομεν; οὐ γάρ πω μανθάνομεν.
Ath. Naturally: but I will try to explain myself more clearly. When in my discourse I came to the subject of education, I saw young men and maidens consorting with one another affectionately; and, naturally, a feeling of alarm came upon me, as I asked myself how one is to manage a State like this in which young men and maidens are well-nourished but exempt from those severe and menial labors which are the surest means of quenching wantonness, and where the chief occupation of everyone all through life consists in sacrifices, feasts and dances.
ΑΘ. εἰκότως γε· ἀλλὰ δὴ πειράσομαι ἐγὼ φράζειν ὑμῖν ἔτι σαφέστερον. ὡς γὰρ εἰς παιδείαν ἦλθον τῷ λόγῳ, εἶδον νέους τε καὶ νέας ὁμιλοῦντας φιλοφρόνως ἀλλήλοις· εἰσῆλθεν δή με, οἷον εἰκός, φοβηθῆναι, συννοήσαντα τί τις χρήσεται τῇ τοιαύτῃ πόλει ἐν ᾗ δὴ νέοι μὲν νέαι τε εὐτρεφεῖς εἰσί, πόνων δὲ σφοδρῶν καὶ ἀνελευθέρων, οἳ μάλιστα ὕβριν σβεννύασιν, ἀργοί, θυσίαι δὲ καὶ ἑορταὶ καὶ χοροὶ πᾶσιν μέλουσιν διὰ βίου.
835e. In a State such as this, how will the young abstain from those desires which frequently plunge many into ruin,—all those desires from which reason, in its endeavor to be law, enjoins abstinence?
835e. τίνα δή ποτε τρόπον ἐν ταύτῃ τῇ πόλει ἀφέξονται τῶν πολλοὺς δὴ πολλὰ ἐπιθυμιῶν εἰς ἔσχατα βαλλουσῶν, ὧν ἂν ὁ λόγος προστάττῃ ἀπέχεσθαι, νόμος ἐπιχειρῶν γίγνεσθαι;
836. Ath. That the laws previously ordained serve to repress the majority of desires is not surprising; thus, for example, the proscription of excessive wealth is of no small benefit for promoting temperance, and the whole of our education-system contains laws useful for the same purpose; in addition to this, there is the watchful eye of the magistrates, trained to fix its gaze always on this point and to keep constant watch on the young people. These means, then, are sufficient (so far as any human means suffice) to deal with the other desires. But when we come to the amorous passions of children of both sexes and of men for women and women for men,— passions which have been the cause of countless woes both to individuals and to whole States,—how is one to guard against these, or what remedy can one apply so as to find a way of escape in all such cases from a danger such as this?
836. ΑΘ. καὶ τῶν μὲν πολλῶν οὐ θαυμαστὸν ἐπιθυμιῶν εἰ κρατοῖ τὰ πρόσθεν νόμιμα ταχθέντα—τὸ γὰρ μὴ πλουτεῖν τε ἐξεῖναι ὑπερβαλλόντως ἀγαθὸν πρὸς τὸ σωφρονεῖν οὐ σμικρόν, καὶ πᾶσα ἡ παιδεία μετρίους πρὸς τὰ τοιαῦτʼ εἴληφεν νόμους, καὶ πρὸς τούτοις ἡ τῶν ἀρχόντων ὄψις διηναγκασμένη μὴ ἀποβλέπειν ἄλλοσε, τηρεῖν δʼ ἀεί, τοὺς νέους τʼ αὐτούς, πρὸς μὲν τὰς ἄλλας ἐπιθυμίας, ὅσα γε ἀνθρώπινα, μέτρον ἔχει—τὰ δὲ δὴ τῶν ἐρώτων παίδων τε ἀρρένων καὶ θηλειῶν καὶ γυναικῶν ἀνδρῶν
836b. It is extremely difficult, Clinias. For whereas, in regard to other matters not a few, Crete generally and Lacedaemon furnish us (and rightly) with no little assistance in the framing of laws which differ from those in common use,—in regard to the passions of sex (for we are alone by ourselves) they contradict us absolutely. If we were to follow in nature’s steps and enact that law which held good before the days of Laius, declaring that it is right to refrain from indulging in the same kind of intercourse with men and boys as with women, and adducing as evidence thereof the nature of wild beasts, and pointing out how male does not touch male for this purpose, since it is unnatural,—in all this we would probably be using an argument neither convincing nor in any way consonant with your States. Moreover, that object which, as we affirm, the lawgiver ought always to have in view does not agree with these practices.
836b. καὶ ἀνδρῶν γυναικῶν ὅθεν δὴ μυρία γέγονεν ἀνθρώποις ἰδίᾳ καὶ ὅλαις πόλεσιν, πῶς τις τοῦτο διευλαβοῖτʼ ἄν, καὶ τί τεμὼν φάρμακον τούτοις ἑκάστοις τοῦ τοιούτου κινδύνου διαφυγὴν εὑρήσει; πάντως οὐ ῥᾴδιον, ὦ Κλεινία. καὶ γὰρ οὖν πρὸς μὲν ἄλλα οὐκ ὀλίγα ἡ Κρήτη τε ἡμῖν ὅλη καὶ ἡ Λακεδαίμων βοήθειαν ἐπιεικῶς οὐ σμικρὰν συμβάλλονται τιθεῖσι νόμους ἀλλοίους τῶν πολλῶν τρόπων, περὶ δὲ τῶν ἐρώτων—αὐτοὶ γάρ ἐσμεν—ἐναντιοῦνται παντάπασιν. εἰ γάρ τις ἀκολουθῶν τῇ φύσει θήσει τὸν πρὸ τοῦ Λαΐου νόμον, λέγων ὡς ὀρθῶς εἶχεν τὸ τῶν ἀρρένων καὶ νέων μὴ κοινωνεῖν καθάπερ θηλειῶν πρὸς μεῖξιν ἀφροδισίων, μάρτυρα παραγόμενος τὴν τῶν θηρίων φύσιν καὶ δεικνὺς πρὸς τὰ τοιαῦτα οὐχ ἁπτόμενον ἄρρενα ἄρρενος διὰ τὸ μὴ φύσει τοῦτο εἶναι, τάχʼ ἂν χρῷτο πιθανῷ λόγῳ, καὶ ταῖς ὑμετέραις πόλεσιν οὐδαμῶς συμφωνοῖ. πρὸς δὲ τούτοις, ὃ διὰ παντός φαμεν δεῖν τὸν νομοθέτην τηρεῖν, τοῦτο ἐν τούτοις οὐχ ὁμολογεῖ.
836d. For the enquiry we always make is this —which of the proposed laws tends toward virtue and which not. Come then, suppose we grant that this practice is now legalized, and that it is noble and in no way ignoble, how far would it promote virtue? Will it engender in the soul of him who is seduced a courageous character, or in the soul of the seducer the quality of temperance? Nobody would ever believe this; on the contrary, as all men will blame the cowardice of the man who always yields to pleasures and is never able to hold out against them, will they not likewise reproach that man who plays the woman’s part with the resemblance he bears to his model?
836d. ζητοῦμεν γὰρ ἀεὶ δὴ τί τῶν τιθεμένων πρὸς ἀρετὴν φέρει καὶ τί μή· φέρε δή, τοῦτο ἐὰν συγχωρῶμεν καλὸν ἢ μηδαμῶς αἰσχρὸν νομοθετεῖσθαι τὰ νῦν, τί μέρος ἡμῖν συμβάλλοιτʼ ἂν πρὸς ἀρετήν; πότερον ἐν τῇ τοῦ πεισθέντος ψυχῇ γιγνόμενον ἐμφύσεται τὸ τῆς ἀνδρείας ἦθος, ἢ ἐν τῇ τοῦ πείσαντος τὸ τῆς σώφρονος ἰδέας γένος; ἢ ταῦτα μὲν οὐδεὶς ἂν πεισθείη ποτέ, μᾶλλον δὲ ἅπαν τούτου τοὐναντίον, τοῦ μὲν ταῖς ἡδοναῖς ὑπείκοντος καὶ καρτερεῖν οὐ δυναμένου ψέξει πᾶς τὴν μαλακίαν, τοῦ δʼ εἰς μίμησιν τοῦ θήλεος ἰόντος τὴν τῆς εἰκόνος ὁμοιότητα ἆρʼ οὐ μέμψεται;
836e. Is there any man, then, who will ordain by law a practice like that? Not one, I should say, if he has a notion of what true law is. What then do we declare to be the truth about this matter?
836e. τίς οὖν ἀνθρώπων τοῦτο ὂν τοιοῦτον νομοθετήσει; σχεδὸν οὐδείς, ἔχων γε ἐν τῷ νῷ νόμον ἀληθῆ. πῶς οὖν φαμεν ἀληθὲς τοῦτο εἶναι;
837. Ath. It is necessary to discern the real nature of friendship and desire and love (so-called), if we are to determine them rightly; for what causes the utmost confusion and obscurity is the fact that this single term embraces these two things, and also a third kind compounded of them both.
837. ΑΘ. τὴν τῆς φιλίας τε καὶ ἐπιθυμίας ἅμα καὶ τῶν λεγομένων ἐρώτων φύσιν ἰδεῖν ἀναγκαῖον, εἰ μέλλει τις ταῦτα ὀρθῶς διανοηθήσεσθαι·
837a. Clin. How so?Ath. Friendship is the name we give to the affection of like for like, in point of goodness, and of equal for equal; and also to that of the needy for the rich, which is of the opposite kind; and when either of these feelings is intense we call it “love.”
837a. δύο γὰρ ὄντα αὐτά, καὶ ἐξ ἀμφοῖν τρίτον ἄλλο εἶδος, ἓν ὄνομα περιλαβὸν πᾶσαν ἀπορίαν καὶ σκότον ἀπεργάζεται.ΚΛ. πῶς;ΑΘ. φίλον μέν που καλοῦμεν ὅμοιον ὁμοίῳ κατʼ ἀρετὴν καὶ ἴσον ἴσῳ, φίλον δʼ αὖ καὶ τὸ δεόμενον τοῦ πεπλουτηκότος, ἐναντίον ὂν τῷ γένει· ὅταν δὲ ἑκάτερον γίγνηται σφοδρόν, ἔρωτα ἐπονομάζομεν.
837b. Clin. True.
837b. ΚΛ. ὀρθῶς.
Ath. The friendship which occurs between opposites is terrible and fierce and seldom reciprocal amongst men, while that based on similarity is gentle and reciprocal throughout life. The kind which arises from a blend of these presents difficulties,—first, to discover what the man affected by this third kind of love really desires to obtain, and, in the next place, because the man himself is at a loss, being dragged in opposite directions by the two tendencies,—of which the one bids him to enjoy the bloom of his beloved, while the other forbids him. For he that is in love with the body and hungering after its bloom, as it were that of a ripening peach, urges himself on to take his fill of it, paying no respect to the disposition of the beloved; whereas he that counts bodily desire as but secondary, and puts longing looks in place of love, with soul lusting really for soul, regards the bodily satisfaction of the body as an outrage, and, reverently worshipping temperance, courage, nobility and wisdom, will desire to live always chastely in company with
ΑΘ. φιλία τοίνυν ἡ μὲν ἀπὸ ἐναντίων δεινὴ καὶ ἀγρία καὶ τὸ κοινὸν οὐ πολλάκις ἔχουσα ἐν ἡμῖν, ἡ δʼ ἐκ τῶν ὁμοίων ἥμερός τε καὶ κοινὴ διὰ βίου· μεικτὴ δὲ ἐκ τούτων γενομένη πρῶτον μὲν καταμαθεῖν οὐ ῥᾳδία, τί ποτε βούλοιτʼ ἂν αὑτῷ γενέσθαι τὸν τρίτον ἔρωτά τις ἔχων τοῦτον, ἔπειτα εἰς τοὐναντίον ὑπʼ ἀμφοῖν ἑλκόμενος ἀπορεῖ, τοῦ μὲν κελεύοντος τῆς ὥρας ἅπτεσθαι, τοῦ δὲ ἀπαγορεύοντος. ὁ μὲν γὰρ τοῦ σώματος ἐρῶν, καὶ τῆς ὥρας καθάπερ ὀπώρας πεινῶν, ἐμπλησθῆναι παρακελεύεται ἑαυτῷ, τιμὴν οὐδεμίαν ἀπονέμων τῷ τῆς ψυχῆς ἤθει τοῦ ἐρωμένου· ὁ δὲ πάρεργον μὲν τὴν τοῦ σώματος ἐπιθυμίαν ἔχων, ὁρῶν δὲ μᾶλλον ἢ ἐρῶν, τῇ ψυχῇ δὲ ὄντως τῆς ψυχῆς ἐπιτεθυμηκώς, ὕβριν ἥγηται τὴν περὶ τὸ σῶμα τοῦ σώματος πλησμονήν, τὸ σῶφρον δὲ καὶ ἀνδρεῖον καὶ μεγαλοπρεπὲς καὶ τὸ φρόνιμον αἰδούμενος ἅμα καὶ σεβόμενος, ἁγνεύειν ἀεὶ μεθʼ ἁγνεύοντος τοῦ ἐρωμένου βούλοιτʼ ἄν·
837d. the chaste object of his love. But the love which is blended of these two kinds is that which we have described just now as third. Since, then, love has so many varieties, ought the law to prohibit them all and prevent them from existing in our midst, or shall we not plainly wish that the kind of love which belongs to virtue and desires the young to be as good as possible should exist within our State, while we shall prohibit, if possible, the other two kinds? Or what is our view, my dear Megillus?
837d. ὁ δὲ μειχθεὶς ἐξ ἀμφοῖν τρίτος ἔρως οὗτός ἐσθʼ ὃν νῦν διεληλύθαμεν ὡς τρίτον. ὄντων δὲ τούτων τοσούτων, πότερον ἅπαντας δεῖ κωλύειν τὸν νόμον, ἀπείργοντα μὴ γίγνεσθαι ἐν ἡμῖν, ἢ δῆλον ὅτι τὸν μὲν ἀρετῆς ὄντα καὶ τὸν νέον ἐπιθυμοῦντα ὡς ἄριστον γίγνεσθαι βουλοίμεθʼ ἂν ἡμῖν ἐν τῇ πόλει ἐνεῖναι, τοὺς δὲ δύο, εἰ δυνατὸν εἴη, κωλύοιμεν ἄν; ἢ πῶς λέγομεν, ὦ φίλε Μέγιλλε;
Meg. Your description of the subject, Stranger, is perfectly correct.
ΜΕ. πάντῃ τοι καλῶς, ὦ ξένε, περὶ αὐτῶν τούτων εἴρηκας τὰ νῦν.
837e. Ath. It seems that, as I expected, I have gained your assent; so there is no need for me to investigate your law, and its attitude towards such matters, but simply to accept your agreement to my statement. Later on I will try to charm Clinias also into agreeing with me on this subject. So let your joint admission stand at that, and let us by all means proceed with our laws.
837e. ΑΘ. ἔοικά γε, ὅπερ καὶ ἐτόπαζον, τυχεῖν τῆς σῆς, ὦ φίλε, συνῳδίας· τὸν δὲ νόμον ὑμῶν, ὅτι νοεῖ περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα, οὐδέν με ἐξετάζειν δεῖ, δέχεσθαι δὲ τὴν τῷ λόγῳ συγχώρησιν. Κλεινίᾳ δὲ μετὰ ταῦτα καὶ εἰς αὖθις περὶ αὐτῶν τούτων πειράσομαι ἐπᾴδων πείθειν. τὸ δέ μοι δεδομένον ὑπὸ σφῷν ἴτω, καὶ διεξέλθωμεν πάντως τοὺς νόμους.
Meg. Quite right.
ΜΕ. ὀρθότατα λέγεις.
838. Ath. I know of a device at present for enacting this law, which is in one way easy, but in another quite the hardest possible.
838. ΑΘ. τέχνην δή τινʼ αὖ τούτου τοῦ νόμου τῆς θέσεως ἐν τῷ νῦν παρόντι τὴν μὲν ῥᾳδίαν ἔχω, τὴν δʼ αὖ τινα τρόπον παντάπασιν ὡς οἷόν τε χαλεπωτάτην.
838a. Meg. Explain your meaning.
838a. ΜΕ. πῶς δὴ λέγεις;
Ath. Even at present, as we are aware, most men, however lawless they are, are effectively and strictly precluded from sexual commerce with beautiful persons,—and that not against their will, but with their own most willing consent.
ΑΘ. ἴσμεν που καὶ τὰ νῦν τοὺς πλείστους τῶν ἀνθρώπων, καίπερ παρανόμους ὄντας, ὡς εὖ τε καὶ ἀκριβῶς εἴργονται τῆς τῶν καλῶν συνουσίας οὐκ ἄκοντες, ὡς οἷόν τε δὲ μάλιστα ἑκόντες.
Meg. On what occasions do you mean?
ΜΕ. πότε λέγεις;
Ath. Whenever any man has a brother or sister who is beautiful. So too in the case of a son or daughter, the same unwritten law is most effective in guarding men from sleeping with them, either openly or secretly, or wishing to have any connection with them,—nay, most men never so much as feel any desire for such connection.
ΑΘ. ὅταν ἀδελφὸς ἢ ἀδελφή τῳ γένωνται καλοί. καὶ περὶ ὑέος ἢ θυγατρὸς ὁ αὐτὸς νόμος ἄγραφος ὢν ὡς οἷόν τε ἱκανώτατα φυλάττει μήτε φανερῶς μήτε λάθρᾳ συγκαθεύδοντα ἤ πως ἄλλως ἀσπαζόμενον ἅπτεσθαι τούτων·
838b. Meg. That is true.Ath. Is it not, then, by a brief sentence that all such pleasures are quenched?Meg. What sentence do you mean?Ath. The sentence that these acts are by no means holy, but hated of God and most shamefully shameful.
838b. ἀλλʼ οὐδʼ ἐπιθυμία ταύτης τῆς συνουσίας τὸ παράπαν εἰσέρχεται τοὺς πολλούς.ΜΕ. ἀληθῆ λέγεις.ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν σμικρὸν ῥῆμα κατασβέννυσι πάσας τὰς τοιαύτας ἡδονάς;ΜΕ. τὸ ποῖον δὴ λέγεις;ΑΘ. τὸ ταῦτα εἶναι φάναι μηδαμῶς ὅσια, θεομισῆ δὲ καὶ αἰσχρῶν αἴσχιστα.
838c. And does not the reason lie in this, that nobody speaks of them otherwise, but every one of us, from the day of his birth, hears this opinion expressed always and everywhere, not only in comic speech, but often also in serious tragedy—as when there is brought on to the stage a Thyestes or an Oedipus, or a Macareus having secret intercourse with a sister, and all these are seen inflicting death upon themselves willingly as a punishment for their sins?
838c. τὸ δʼ αἴτιον ἆρʼ οὐ τοῦτʼ ἐστί, τὸ μηδένα ἄλλως λέγειν αὐτά, ἀλλʼ εὐθὺς γενόμενον ἡμῶν ἕκαστον ἀκούειν τε λεγόντων ἀεὶ καὶ πανταχοῦ ταῦτα, ἐν γελοίοις τε ἅμα ἐν πάσῃ τε σπουδῇ τραγικῇ λεγομένῃ πολλάκις, ὅταν ἢ Θυέστας ἤ τινας Οἰδίποδας εἰσάγωσιν, ἢ Μακαρέας τινὰς ἀδελφαῖς μειχθέντας λαθραίως, ὀφθέντας δὲ ἑτοίμως θάνατον αὑτοῖς ἐπιτιθέντας δίκην τῆς ἁμαρτίας;
Meg. Thus much at least you are quite right in saying—that public opinion has a surprising influence, when there is no attempt by anybody ever to breathe a word that contradicts the law.
ΜΕ. ὀρθότατα λέγεις τό γε τοσοῦτον, ὅτι τὸ τῆς φήμης θαυμαστήν τινα δύναμιν εἴληχεν, ὅταν μηδεὶς μηδαμῶς ἄλλως ἀναπνεῖν ἐπιχειρήσῃ ποτὲ παρὰ τὸν νόμον.
838d. Ath. Then is it not true, as I said just now, that when a lawgiver wishes to subdue one of those lusts which especially subdue men, it is easy for him at least to learn the method of mastering them,—that it is by consecrating this public opinion in the eyes of all alike—bond and free, women and children, and the whole State—that he will effect the firmest security for this law.
838d. ΑΘ. οὐκοῦν ὀρθὸν τὸ νυνδὴ ῥηθέν, ὅτι νομοθέτῃ, βουλομένῳ τινὰ ἐπιθυμίαν δουλώσασθαι τῶν διαφερόντως τοὺς ἀνθρώπους δουλουμένων, ῥᾴδιον γνῶναί γε ὅντινα τρόπον χειρώσαιτο ἄν· ὅτι καθιερώσας ταύτην τὴν φήμην παρὰ πᾶσι, δούλοις τε καὶ ἐλευθέροις καὶ παισὶ καὶ γυναιξὶ καὶ ὅλῃ τῇ πόλει κατὰ τὰ αὐτά, οὕτω τὸ βεβαιότατον ἀπειργασμένος ἔσται περὶ τοῦτον τὸν νόμον.
838e. Meg. Certainly; but how it will ever be possible for him to bring it about that all are willing to say such a thing— Ath.
838e. ΜΕ. πάνυ μὲν οὖν· ὅπως δὲ αὖ τὸ τοιοῦτον ἐθέλοντας λέγειν πάντας δυνατὸν ἔσται ποτὲ παρασχεῖν— ΑΘ.
839. A very proper observation. That was precisely the reason why I stated that in reference to this law I know of a device for making a natural use of reproductive intercourse,—on the one hand, by abstaining from the male and not slaying of set purpose the human stock, nor sowing seed on rocks and stones where it can never take root and have fruitful increase; and, on the other hand, by abstaining from every female field in which you would not desire the seed to spring up.
839. καλῶς ὑπέλαβες· αὐτὸ γὰρ τοῦτο ἦν τὸ παρʼ ἐμοῦ λεχθέν, ὅτι τέχνην ἐγὼ πρὸς τοῦτον τὸν νόμον ἔχοιμι τοῦ κατὰ φύσιν χρῆσθαι τῇ τῆς παιδογονίας συνουσίᾳ, τοῦ μὲν ἄρρενος ἀπεχομένους, μὴ κτείνοντάς τε ἐκ προνοίας τὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων γένος, μηδʼ εἰς πέτρας τε καὶ λίθους σπείροντας, οὗ μήποτε φύσιν τὴν αὑτοῦ ῥιζωθὲν λήψεται γόνιμον, ἀπεχομένους δὲ ἀρούρας θηλείας πάσης ἐν ᾗ μὴ βούλοιο ἄν σοι φύεσθαι τὸ σπαρέν.
839a. This law, when it has become permanent and prevails—if it has rightly become dominant in other cases, just as it prevails now regarding intercourse with parents,—is the cause of countless blessings. For, in the first place, it follows the dictates of nature, and it serves to keep men from sexual rage and frenzy and all kinds of fornication, and from all excess in meats and drinks, and it ensures in husbands fondness for their own wives: other blessings also would ensue, in infinite number, if one could make sure of this law.
839a. ὁ δὴ νόμος οὗτος διηνεκὴς μὲν γενόμενος ἅμα καὶ κρατήσας, καθάπερ νῦν περὶ τὰς τῶν γονέων συμμείξεις κρατεῖ, ἐὰν καὶ περὶ τὰς ἄλλας νικήσῃ δικαίως, μυρία ἀγαθὰ ἔχει. κατὰ φύσιν μὲν γὰρ πρῶτον κεῖται, λύττης δὲ ἐρωτικῆς καὶ μανίας καὶ μοιχειῶν πασῶν καὶ πωμάτων καὶ σίτων εἴργεσθαι ποιεῖ τῶν ἀμέτρων πάντων, γυναιξί τε αὑτῶν οἰκείους εἶναι φίλους·
839b. Possibly, however, some young bystander, rash and of superabundant virility, on hearing of the passing of this law, would denounce us for making foolish and impossible rules, and fill all the place with his outcries; and it was in view of this that I made the statement that I knew of a device to secure the permanence of this law when passed which is at once the easiest of all devices and the hardest.
839b. ἄλλα τε πάμπολλα ἀγαθὰ γίγνοιτʼ ἄν, εἰ τοῦ νόμου τις τούτου δύναιτο ἐγκρατὴς εἶναι. τάχα δʼ ἂν ἡμῖν τις παραστὰς ἀνὴρ σφοδρὸς καὶ νέος, πολλοῦ σπέρματος μεστός, ἀκούων τιθεμένου τοῦ νόμου λοιδορήσειεν ἂν ὡς ἀνόητα καὶ ἀδύνατα τιθέντων νόμιμα, καὶ βοῆς πάντα ἐμπλήσειε· πρὸς ἃ δὴ καὶ βλέψας ἐγὼ τοῦτο εἶπον τὸ ῥῆμα, ὥς τινα τέχνην κεκτῄμην, τῇ μὲν ῥᾴστην ἁπασῶν, τῇ δὲ χαλεπωτάτην, πρὸς τὸ τοῦτον τεθέντα ἐμμεῖναι τὸν νόμον.
839c. For while it is very easy to perceive that this is possible, and how it is possible—since we affirm that this rule, when duly consecrated, will dominate all souls, and cause them to dread the laws enacted and yield them entire obedience,—yet it has now come to this, that men think that, even so, it is unlikely to come about,—just in the same way as, in the case of the institution of public meals, people refuse to believe that it is possible for the whole State to be able to continue this practice constantly; and that, too, in spite of the evidence of facts and the existence of the practice in your countries; and even there, as applied to women, the practice is regarded as non-natural.
839c. νοῆσαι μὲν γὰρ δὴ ῥᾷστον ὡς δυνατόν τέ ἐστιν καὶ ὅπῃ—φαμὲν γὰρ δὴ καθιερωθὲν τοῦτο ἱκανῶς τὸ νόμιμον πᾶσαν ψυχὴν δουλώσεσθαι καὶ παντάπασιν μετὰ φόβου ποιήσειν πείθεσθαι τοῖς τεθεῖσιν νόμοις—ἀλλὰ γὰρ εἰς τοῦτο προβέβηκε νῦν, ὥστʼ οὐδʼ ἂν τότε γενέσθαι δοκεῖ, καθάπερ τὸ τῶν συσσιτίων ἐπιτήδευμα ἀπιστεῖται μὴ δυνατὸν εἶναι δύνασθαι διὰ βίου πόλιν ὅλην ζῆν πράττουσαν τοῦτο, ἐλεγχθὲν δʼ ἔργῳ καὶ γενόμενον παρʼ ὑμῖν, ὅμως ἔτι τό γε γυναικῶν οὐδὲ ἐν ταῖς ὑμετέραις πόλεσιν δοκεῖ φύσιν ἔχειν γίγνεσθαι.
839d. Thus it was that, because of the strength of this unbelief, I said that it is most difficult to get both these matters permanently legalized.
839d. ταύτῃ δʼ αὖ, διὰ τὴν τῆς ἀπιστίας ῥώμην, εἴρηκα ἀμφότερα ταῦτα εἶναι παγχάλεπα μεῖναι κατὰ νόμον.
Meg. And you were right in that.
ΜΕ. ὀρθῶς γε σὺ λέγων.
Ath. Still, to show that it is not beyond the power of man, but possible, would you like me to try to state an argument which is not without some plausibility?
ΑΘ. ὡς δʼ οὖν οὐκ ἔστιν ὑπὲρ ἄνθρωπον, οἷόν τε δὲ γενέσθαι, βούλεσθε ὑμῖν πειραθῶ τινα λόγον ἐχόμενον πιθανότητος εἰπεῖν τινος;
Clin. Certainly.
ΚΛ. πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
839e. Ath. Would a man be more ready to abstain from sex-indulgence, and to consent to carry out the law on this matter soberly, if he had his body not ill-trained, but in good condition, than if he had it in bad condition?
839e. ΑΘ. πότερον οὖν τις ἀφροδισίων ῥᾷον ἂν ἀπέχοιτο, καὶ τὸ ταχθὲν ἐθέλοι περὶ αὐτὰ μετρίως ποιεῖν, εὖ τὸ σῶμα ἔχων καὶ μὴ ἰδιωτικῶς, ἢ φαύλως;
Clin. He would be much more ready if it were not ill-trained.
ΚΛ. πολύ που μᾶλλον μὴ ἰδιωτικῶς.
840. Ath. Do we not know by report about Iccus of Tarentum, because of his contests at Olympia and elsewhere,— how, spurred on by ambition and skill, and possessing courage combined with temperance in his soul, during all the period of his training (as the story goes) he never touched a woman, nor yet a boy? And the same story is told about Crison and Astylus and Diopompus and very many others. And yet, Clinias, these men were not only much worse educated in soul than your citizens and mine, but they also possessed much more sexual vigor of body.
840. ΑΘ. ἆρʼ οὖν οὐκ ἴσμεν τὸν Ταραντῖνον Ἴκκον ἀκοῇ διὰ τὸν Ὀλυμπίασί τε ἀγῶνα καὶ τούς γε ἄλλους; ὧν διὰ φιλονικίαν, καὶ τέχνην καὶ τὸ μετὰ τοῦ σωφρονεῖν ἀνδρεῖον ἐν τῇ ψυχῇ κεκτημένος, ὡς λόγος, οὔτε τινὸς πώποτε γυναικὸς ἥψατο οὐδʼ αὖ παιδὸς ἐν ὅλῃ τῇ τῆς ἀσκήσεως ἀκμῇ· καὶ δὴ καὶ Κρίσωνα καὶ Ἀστύλον καὶ Διόπομπον καὶ ἄλλους παμπόλλους ὁ αὐτός που λόγος ἔχει. καίτοι τῶν γʼ ἐμῶν καὶ σῶν πολιτῶν, ὦ Κλεινία, πολὺ κάκιον ἦσαν πεπαιδευμένοι τὰς ψυχάς, τὰ δὲ σώματα πολὺ μᾶλλον σφριγῶντες.
840b. Clin. That this really happened in the case of these athletes is indeed, as you say, confidently affirmed by the ancients.
840b. ΚΛ. ἀληθῆ ταῦτα λέγεις ὅτι σφόδρα ὑπὸ τῶν παλαιῶν ἐστιν εἰρημένα περὶ τούτων τῶν ἀθλητῶν ὡς ὄντως ποτὲ γενόμενα.
Ath. Well then, if those men had the fortitude to abstain from that which most men count bliss for the sake of victory in wrestling, running, and the like, shall our boys be unable to hold out in order to win a much nobler victory—that which is the noblest of all victories, as we shall tell them from their childhood’s days, charming them into belief, we hope, by tales and sentences and songs.
ΑΘ. τί οὖν; οἱ μὲν ἄρα νίκης ἕνεκα πάλης καὶ δρόμων καὶ τῶν τοιούτων ἐτόλμησαν ἀπέχεσθαι λεγομένου πράγματος ὑπὸ τῶν πολλῶν εὐδαίμονος, οἱ δὲ ἡμέτεροι παῖδες ἀδυνατήσουσι καρτερεῖν πολὺ καλλίονος ἕνεκα νίκης, ἣν ἡμεῖς καλλίστην ἐκ παίδων πρὸς αὐτοὺς λέγοντες ἐν μύθοις τε καὶ ἐν ῥήμασιν καὶ ἐν μέλεσιν ᾄδοντες, ὡς εἰκός, κηλήσομεν;
840c. Clin. What victory?
840c. ΚΛ. ποίας;
Ath. Victory over pleasures,—which if they win, they will live a life of bliss, but if they lose, the very opposite. Furthermore, will not the dread that this is a thing utterly unholy give them power to master those impulses which men inferior to themselves have mastered?
ΑΘ. τῆς τῶν ἡδονῶν νίκης ἐγκρατεῖς ὄντας ἂν ζῆν εὐδαιμόνως, ἡττωμένους δὲ τοὐναντίον ἅπαν. πρὸς δὲ τούτοις ἔτι φόβος ὁ τοῦ μηδαμῇ μηδαμῶς ὅσιον αὐτὸ εἶναι δύναμιν ἡμῖν οὐκ ἄρα ἕξει κρατεῖν ὧν ἄλλοι κεκρατήκασι τούτων ὄντες χείρονες;
Clin. It is certainly reasonable to suppose so.
ΚΛ. εἰκὸς γοῦν.
Ath. Now that we have reached this point in regard to our regulation, but have fallen into a strait because of the cowardice of the many, I maintain that our regulation on this head must go forward and proclaim that our citizens must not be worse than fowls and many other animals which are produced in large broods, and which live chaste and celibate lives without sexual intercourse until they arrive at the age for breeding; and when they reach this age they pair off, as instinct moves them, male with female and female with male; and thereafter
ΑΘ. ἐπειδὴ τοίνυν ἐνταῦθά ἐσμεν τούτου τοῦ νομίμου πέρι, διὰ κάκην δὲ τὴν τῶν πολλῶν εἰς ἀπορίαν ἐπέσομεν, φημὶ τὸ μὲν ἡμέτερον νόμιμον ἀτεχνῶς δεῖν περὶ αὐτῶν τούτων πορεύεσθαι λέγον ὡς οὐ δεῖ χείρους ἡμῖν εἶναι τοὺς πολίτας ὀρνίθων καὶ ἄλλων θηρίων πολλῶν, οἳ κατὰ μεγάλας ἀγέλας γεννηθέντες, μέχρι μὲν παιδογονίας ἠίθεοι καὶ ἀκήρατοι γάμων τε ἁγνοὶ ζῶσιν, ὅταν δʼ εἰς τοῦτο ἡλικίας ἔλθωσι, συνδυασθέντες ἄρρην θηλείᾳ κατὰ χάριν καὶ θήλεια ἄρρενι, τὸν λοιπὸν χρόνον ὁσίως καὶ δικαίως ζῶσιν, ἐμμένοντες
840e. they live in a way that is holy and just, remaining constant to their first contracts of love: surely our citizens should at least be better than these animals. If, however, they become corrupted by most of the other Hellenes or barbarians, through seeing and hearing that among them the “lawless Love” (as it is called) is of very great power, and thus become unable to overcome it, then the Law-wardens, acting as lawgivers, must devise for them a second law.
840e. βεβαίως ταῖς πρώταις τῆς φιλίας ὁμολογίαις· δεῖν δὴ θηρίων γε αὐτοὺς ἀμείνους εἶναι. ἐὰν δʼ οὖν ὑπὸ τῶν ἄλλων Ἑλλήνων καὶ βαρβάρων τῶν πλείστων διαφθείρωνται, τὴν λεγομένην ἄτακτον Ἀφροδίτην ἐν αὐτοῖς ὁρῶντές τε καὶ ἀκούοντες μέγιστον δυναμένην, καὶ οὕτω δὴ μὴ δυνατοὶ γίγνωνται κατακρατεῖν, δεύτερον νόμον ἐπʼ αὐτοῖς μηχανᾶσθαι χρὴ τοὺς νομοφύλακας νομοθέτας γενομένους.
841a. Clin. What law do you recommend them to make if that which is now proposed slips out of their grasp?
841a. ΚΛ. τίνα δὴ συμβουλεύεις αὐτοῖς τίθεσθαι νόμον, ἐὰν ὁ νῦν τιθέμενος αὐτοὺς ἐκφύγῃ;
Ath. Evidently that law which comes next to it as second.
ΑΘ. δῆλον ὅτι τὸν ἐχόμενον τούτου δεύτερον, ὦ Κλεινία.
Clin. What is that?
ΚΛ. τίνα λέγεις;
Ath. One ought to put the force of pleasures as far as possible out of gear, by diverting its increase and nutriment to another part of the body by means of exercise. This would come about if indulgence in sexual intercourse were devoid of shamelessness; for if, owing to shame, people indulged in it but seldom, in consequence of this rare indulgence they would find it a less tyrannical mistress.
ΑΘ. ἀγύμναστον ὅτι μάλιστα ποιεῖν τὴν τῶν ἡδονῶν ῥώμην ἦν, τὴν ἐπίχυσιν καὶ τροφὴν αὐτῆς διὰ πόνων ἄλλοσε τρέποντα τοῦ σώματος. εἴη δʼ ἂν τοῦτο, εἰ ἀναίδεια μὴ ἐνείη τῇ τῶν ἀφροδισίων χρήσει· σπανίῳ γὰρ αὖ τῷ τοιούτῳ διʼ αἰσχύνην χρώμενοι, ἀσθενεστέραν ἂν αὐτὴν δέσποιναν κτῷντο ὀλιγάκις χρώμενοι.
841b. Let them, therefore, regard privacy in such actions as honorable—sanctioned both by custom and by unwritten law; and want of privacy—yet not the entire avoidance of such actions—as dishonorable. Thus we shall have a second standard of what is honorable and shameful established by law and possessing a second degree of rectitude; and those people of depraved character, whom we describe as “self-inferior,” and who form a single kind, shall be hemmed in by three kinds of force and compelled to refrain from law-breaking.
841b. τὸ δὴ λανθάνειν τούτων δρῶντά τι καλὸν παρʼ αὐτοῖς ἔστω, νόμιμον ἔθει καὶ ἀγράφῳ νομισθὲν νόμῳ, τὸ δὲ μὴ λανθάνειν αἰσχρόν, ἀλλʼ οὐ τὸ μὴ πάντως δρᾶν. οὕτω τοῦτο αἰσχρὸν αὖ καὶ καλὸν δευτέρως ἂν ἡμῖν ἐν νόμῳ γενόμενον κέοιτο, ὀρθότητα ἔχον δευτέραν, καὶ τοὺς τὰς φύσεις διεφθαρμένους, οὓς ἥττους αὑτῶν προσαγορεύομεν, ἓν γένος ὄν, περιλαβόντα τρία γένη βιάζοιτʼ ἂν μὴ παρανομεῖν.
841c. Clin. What kinds?
841c. ΚΛ. ποῖα δή;
Ath. That of godly fear, and that of love of honor, and that which is desirous of fair forms of soul, not fair bodies. The things I now mention are, perhaps, like the visionary ideals in a story; yet in very truth, if only they were realized, they would prove a great blessing in every State. Possibly, should God so grant, we might forcibly effect one of two things in this matter of sex-relations,—either that no one should venture to touch any of the noble and freeborn save his own wedded wife, nor sow any unholy and bastard seed in fornication, nor any unnatural and barren seed in sodomy,—or else we should entirely abolish love for males, and in regard to that for women, if we enact a law that any man who has intercourse with any women save those who have been brought to his house under the sanction of Heaven and holy marriage, whether purchased or otherwise acquired, if detected in such intercourse by any man or woman, shall be disqualified from any civic commendation, as being really an alien,— probably such a law would be approved as right.
ΑΘ. τό τε θεοσεβὲς ἅμα καὶ φιλότιμον καὶ τὸ μὴ τῶν σωμάτων ἀλλὰ τῶν τρόπων τῆς ψυχῆς ὄντων καλῶν γεγονὸς ἐν ἐπιθυμίᾳ. ταῦτα δὴ καθάπερ ἴσως ἐν μύθῳ τὰ νῦν λεγόμενʼ ἐστὶν εὐχαί, πολύ γε μὴν ἄριστα, εἴπερ γίγνοιτο, ἐν πάσαις πόλεσι γίγνοιτο ἄν. τάχα δʼ ἄν, εἰ θεὸς ἐθέλοι, κἂν δυοῖν θάτερα βιασαίμεθα περὶ ἐρωτικῶν, ἢ μηδένα τολμᾶν μηδενὸς ἅπτεσθαι τῶν γενναίων ἅμα καὶ ἐλευθέρων πλὴν γαμετῆς ἑαυτοῦ γυναικός, ἄθυτα δὲ παλλακῶν σπέρματα καὶ νόθα μὴ σπείρειν, μηδὲ ἄγονα ἀρρένων παρὰ φύσιν· ἢ τὸ μὲν τῶν ἀρρένων πάμπαν ἀφελοίμεθʼ ἄν, τὸ δὲ γυναικῶν, εἴ τις συγγίγνοιτό τινι πλὴν ταῖς μετὰ θεῶν καὶ ἱερῶν γάμων ἐλθούσαις εἰς τὴν οἰκίαν, ὠνηταῖς εἴτε ἄλλῳ ὁτῳοῦν τρόπῳ κτηταῖς, μὴ λανθάνων ἄνδρας τε καὶ γυναῖκας πάσας, τάχʼ ἂν ἄτιμον αὐτὸν τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει ἐπαίνων νομοθετοῦντες ὀρθῶς ἂν δόξαιμεν νομοθετεῖν, ὡς ὄντως ὄντα ξενικόν.
842. Ath. So let this law—whether we ought to call it one law or two—be laid down concerning sexual commerce and love affairs in general, as regards right and wrong conduct in our mutual intercourse due to these desires.
842. ΑΘ.οὗτος δὴ νόμος, εἴτε εἷς εἴτε δύο αὐτοὺς χρὴ προσαγορεύειν, κείσθω περὶ ἀφροδισίων καὶ ἁπάντων τῶν ἐρωτικῶν, ὅσα πρὸς ἀλλήλους διὰ τὰς τοιαύτας ἐπιθυμίας ὁμιλοῦντες ὀρθῶς τε καὶ οὐκ ὀρθῶς πράττομεν.
842a. Meg. For my own part, Stranger, I should warmly welcome this law; but Clinias must tell us himself what his view is on the matter.
842a. ΜΕ. καὶ τοίνυν, ὦ ξένε, ἐγὼ μέν σοι σφόδρα δεχοίμην ἂν τοῦτον τὸν νόμον, ὁ δὲ δὴ Κλεινίας αὐτὸς φραζέτω τί ποτε περὶ αὐτῶν διανοεῖται.
Clin. I shall do so, Megillus, when I deem the occasion suitable; but for the present let us allow the Stranger to proceed still further with his laws.
ΚΛ. ἔσται ταῦτα, ὦ Μέγιλλε, ὁπόταν γε δή μοι δόξῃ τις παραπεπτωκέναι καιρός· νῦν μὴν ἐῶμεν τὸν ξένον ἔτι εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν προϊέναι τῶν νόμων.
Meg. You are right.
ΜΕ. ὀρθῶς.
842b. Ath. Well, now we have arrived at this point in our progress, that common meals have been established—a thing which elsewhere, as we say, would be difficult, but in Crete no one would question its correctness. As concerns the manner of them,—whether we should adopt the Cretan fashion, or the Lacedaemonian, or whether we can find a third fashion that is better than either,—this does not seem to me a difficult problem to decide, nor indeed would its decision prove of much benefit, since these meals are now actually established in a satisfactory way.
842b. ΑΘ. ἀλλὰ μὴν νῦν γε προϊόντες ἤδη σχεδόν ἐσμεν ἐν τῷ κατεσκευάσθαι μὲν συσσίτια—ὅ φαμεν ἄλλοθι μὲν ἂν χαλεπὸν εἶναι, ἐν Κρήτῃ δὲ οὐδεὶς ἄλλως ἂν ὑπολάβοι δεῖν γίγνεσθαι—τὸ δὲ τίνα τρόπον, πότερον ὡς ἐνθάδε ἢ καθάπερ ἐν Λακεδαίμονι, ἢ παρὰ ταῦτα ἔστιν τι τρίτον εἶδος συσσιτίων ἀμφοῖν τούτοιν ἄμεινον ἂν ἔχον, τοῦτο οὔτʼ ἐξευρεῖν μοι χαλεπὸν εἶναι δοκεῖ, μέγα τε ἀγαθὸν εὑρεθὲν οὐδὲν ἀπεργάσεσθαι· καὶ γὰρ νῦν ἐμμελῶς ἔχειν κατεσκευασμένα.
842c. Next to this comes the question of organizing the food-supply, and how to make this fit in with the meals. In other States this supply would include all kinds of food and come from many sources, certainly from twice as many sources as it will in our State; for most of the Greeks arrange for their food to be derived from both land and sea, but our people will derive it only from the land. This makes the lawgiver’s task easier; for in this case half the number of laws, or less, will suffice, and the laws, too, will be better fitted for free men.
842c. τούτοις δʼ ἐστὶν ἀκόλουθον ἡ τοῦ βίου κατασκευή, τίνʼ αὐτοῖς ἂν τρόπον ἕποιτο. βίος δὴ ἄλλαις μὲν πόλεσιν παντοδαπῶς ἂν καὶ πολλαχόθεν εἴη, μάλιστα δὲ ἐκ διπλασίων ἢ τούτοις· ἐκ γῆς γὰρ καὶ ἐκ θαλάττης τοῖς πλείστοις τῶν Ἑλλήνων ἐστὶ κατεσκευασμένα τὰ περὶ τὴν τροφήν, τούτοις δὲ μόνον ἐκ γῆς. τῷ μὲν οὖν νομοθέτῃ τοῦτο ῥᾷον·
842d. For the lawgiver of our State is rid, for the most part, of shipping and merchandise and peddling and inn-keeping and customs and mines and loans and usury, and countless matters of a like kind; he can say good-bye to all such, and legislate for farmers and shepherds and bee-keepers, and concerning the preservation and supervision of the instruments employed in these occupations. This he will do, now that he has already enacted the most important laws, which deal with marriage, and with the birth and nurture and education of the children, and with the appointment of magistrates in the State.
842d. οὐ γὰρ μόνον ἡμίσεις αὖ γίγνονται νόμοι μέτριοι, πολὺ δʼ ἐλάττους, ἔτι δʼ ἐλευθέροις ἀνθρώποις μᾶλλον πρέποντες. ναυκληρικῶν μὲν γὰρ καὶ ἐμπορικῶν καὶ καπηλευτικῶν καὶ πανδοκεύσεων καὶ τελωνικῶν καὶ μεταλλειῶν καὶ δανεισμῶν καὶ ἐπιτόκων τόκων καὶ ἄλλων μυρίων τοιούτων τὰ πολλὰ ἀπήλλακται, χαίρειν αὐτοῖς εἰπών, ὁ περὶ ταύτην τὴν πόλιν νομοθέτης, γεωργοῖς δὲ καὶ νομεῦσι καὶ μελιττουργοῖς καὶ τοῖς περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα φυλακτηρίοις τε καὶ ἐπιστάταις ὀργάνων νομοθετήσει, τὰ μέγιστα ἤδη νενομοθετηκὼς περὶ γάμους ἅμα καὶ γενέσεις παίδων καὶ τροφάς, ἔτι δὲ καὶ παιδείας ἀρχῶν τε καταστάσεις ἐν τῇ πόλει·
842e. For the present he must turn, in his legislating, to the subject of food and of those whose labors contribute to its supply. First, then, let there be a code of laws termed “agricultural.”
842e. νῦν δʼ ἐπὶ τοὺς τὴν τροφὴν καὶ ὅσοι περὶ αὐτὴν ταύτην συνδιαπονοῦσιν ἀναγκαῖον νομοθετοῦντά ἐστιν τρέπεσθαι.πρῶτον δὴ νόμοι ἔστωσαν λεγόμενοι τοὔνομα γεωργικοί.
843. Ath. The first law—that of Zeus the Boundary-god—shall be stated thus: No man shall move boundary-marks of land, whether they be those of a neighbor who is a native citizen or those of a foreigner (in case he holds adjoining land on a frontier), realizing that to do this is truly to be guilty of “moving the sacrosanct”; sooner let a man try to move the largest rock which is not a boundary-mark than a small stone which forms a boundary, sanctioned by Heaven, between friendly and hostile ground.
843. ΑΘ. Διὸς ὁρίου μὲν πρῶτος νόμος ὅδε εἰρήσθω· μὴ κινείτω γῆς ὅρια μηδεὶς μήτε οἰκείου πολίτου γείτονος, μήτε ὁμοτέρμονος ἐπʼ ἐσχατιᾶς κεκτημένος ἄλλῳ ξένῳ γειτονῶν, νομίσας τὸ τἀκίνητα κινεῖν ἀληθῶς τοῦτο εἶναι·
843a. For of the one kind Zeus the Clansmen’s god is witness, of the other Zeus the Strangers’ god; which gods, when aroused, bring wars most deadly. He that obeys the law shall not suffer the evils which it inflicts; but whoso despises it shall be liable to a double penalty, the first from the hand of Heaven, the second from the law. No one shall voluntarily move the boundary-marks of the land of neighbors: if any man shall move them, whosoever wishes shall report him to the land-holders, and they shall bring him to the law court.
843a. βουλέσθω δὲ πᾶς πέτρον ἐπιχειρῆσαι κινεῖν τὸν μέγιστον ἄλλον πλὴν ὅρον μᾶλλον ἢ σμικρὸν λίθον ὁρίζοντα φιλίαν τε καὶ ἔχθραν ἔνορκον παρὰ θεῶν. τοῦ μὲν γὰρ ὁμόφυλος Ζεὺς μάρτυς, τοῦ δὲ ξένιος, οἳ μετὰ πολέμων τῶν ἐχθίστων ἐγείρονται. καὶ ὁ μὲν πεισθεὶς τῷ νόμῳ ἀναίσθητος τῶν ἀπʼ αὐτοῦ κακῶν γίγνοιτʼ ἄν, καταφρονήσας δὲ διτταῖς δίκαις ἔνοχος ἔστω, μιᾷ μὲν παρὰ θεῶν καὶ πρώτῃ, δευτέρᾳ δὲ ὑπὸ νόμου.
843b. And if a man be convicted,—since by such an act the convicted man is secretly and violently merging lands in one,—the court shall estimate what the loser must suffer or pay. Further, many small wrongs are done against neighbors which, owing to their frequent repetition, engender an immense amount of enmity, and make of neighborhood a grievous and bitter thing.
843b. μηδεὶς γὰρ ἑκὼν κινείτω γῆς ὅρια γειτόνων· ὃς δʼ ἂν κινήσῃ, μηνυέτω μὲν ὁ βουλόμενος τοῖς γεωργοῖς, οἱ δὲ εἰς τὸ δικαστήριον ἀγόντων. ἢν δέ τις ὄφλῃ τὴν τοιαύτην δίκην, ὡς ἀνάδαστον γῆν λάθρᾳ καὶ βίᾳ ποιοῦντος τοῦ ὄφλοντος, τιμάτω τὸ δικαστήριον ὅτι ἂν δέῃ πάσχειν ἢ ἀποτίνειν τὸν ἡττηθέντα.τὸ δὲ μετὰ τοῦτο βλάβαι πολλαὶ καὶ σμικραὶ γειτόνων γιγνόμεναι, διὰ τὸ θαμίζειν ἔχθρας ὄγκον μέγαν ἐντίκτουσαι, χαλεπὴν καὶ σφόδρα πικρὰν γειτονίαν ἀπεργάζονται.
843c. Wherefore every neighbor must guard most carefully against doing any unfriendly act to his neighbor, and must above all things take special care always not to encroach in the least degree on his land; for whereas it is an easy thing and open to anyone to do an injury, to do a benefit is by no means open to everyone. Whosoever encroaches on his neighbor’s ground, overstepping the boundaries, shall pay for the damage; and, by way of cure for his shamelessness and incivility, he shall also pay out to the injured party twice the cost of the damage.
843c. διὸ χρὴ πάντως εὐλαβεῖσθαι γείτονα γείτονι μηδὲν ποιεῖν διάφορον, τῶν τε ἄλλων πέρι καὶ δὴ καὶ ἐπεργασίας συμπάσης σφόδρʼ ἀεὶ διευλαβούμενον· τὸ μὲν γὰρ βλάπτειν οὐδὲν χαλεπὸν ἀλλʼ ἀνθρώπου παντός, τὸ δʼ ἐπωφελεῖν οὐδαμῇ ἅπαντος. ὃς δʼ ἂν ἐπεργάζηται τὰ τοῦ γείτονος ὑπερβαίνων τοὺς ὅρους, τὸ μὲν βλάβος ἀποτινέτω, τῆς δὲ ἀναιδείας ἅμα καὶ ἀνελευθερίας ἕνεκα ἰατρευόμενος διπλάσιον τοῦ βλάβους ἄλλο ἐκτεισάτω τῷ βλαφθέντι·
843d. In all such matters the land-stewards shall act as inspectors, judges and valuers,—the whole staff of the district, as we have said above, in respect of the more important cases, and, in respect of the less important, those of them who are “phrourarchs.” If anyone encroaches on pasture-land, these officials shall inspect the damage, and decide and assess it. And if any, yielding to his taste for bees, secures for himself another man’s swarm by attracting them with the rattling of pans, he shall pay for the damage.
843d. τούτων δὲ καὶ ἁπάντων τῶν τοιούτων ἐπιγνώμονές τε καὶ δικασταὶ καὶ τιμηταὶ γιγνέσθων ἀγρονόμοι, τῶν μὲν μειζόνων, καθάπερ ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν εἴρηται, πᾶσα ἡ τοῦ δωδεκατημορίου τάξις, τῶν ἐλαττόνων δὲ οἱ φρούραρχοι τούτων. καὶ ἐάν τις βοσκήματα ἐπινέμῃ, τὰς βλάβας ὁρῶντες κρινόντων καὶ τιμώντων. καὶ ἐὰν ἐσμοὺς ἀλλοτρίους σφετερίζῃ τις τῇ τῶν μελιττῶν ἡδονῇ συνεπόμενος καὶ κατακρούων οὕτως οἰκειῶται, τινέτω τὴν βλάβην.
843e. And if a man, in burning his own stuff, fails to have a care for that of his neighbor, he shall be fined in a fine fixed by the officials.
843e. καὶ ἐὰν πυρεύων τὴν ὕλην μὴ διευλαβηθῇ τῶν τοῦ γείτονος, τὴν δόξασαν ζημίαν τοῖς ἄρχουσι ζημιούσθω.
844. Ath. So too if a man, when planting trees, fail to leave the due space between them and his neighbor’s plot: this has been adequately stated by many lawgivers, whose laws we should make use of, instead of requiring the Chief Organizer of the State to legislate about all the numerous small details which are within the competence of any chance lawgiver.
844. ΑΘ. καὶ ἐὰν φυτεύων μὴ ἀπολείπῃ τὸ μέτρον τῶν τοῦ γείτονος χωρίων, καθάπερ εἴρηται καὶ πολλοῖς νομοθέταις ἱκανῶς, ὧν τοῖς νόμοις χρὴ προσχρῆσθαι καὶ μὴ πάντα ἀξιοῦν, πολλὰ καὶ σμικρὰ καὶ τοῦ ἐπιτυχόντος νομοθέτου γιγνόμενα, τὸν μείζω πόλεως κοσμητὴν νομοθετεῖν·